Breed EPD's

[Scotty]

Few days ago we had a big discussion on is frame getting to moderate. I for one don't think it is posible to get to moderate. One think I do think is some breeders worry to much about one EPD over all, ALL of the others. I don't like to pul calves. I don't like cattle that grow so fast and big and never mature carcass wise. For example on BW. If you have one so low, 45 lb calves, you are going to need a 120 YW to reach the end point of a right sized animal. At the same time I don't feel 105 lb calves, 2 this year, are any good either. The short an skinny of my post is for new people and veteran breeders I feel one should strive for balanced EPDS. The only area I feel one can go to extream is IMF and carcass traits. Why? Beef is the reason I raise them. Consitancy is what is going to sell more. Better tasting beef will sell even more. I yield the floor. Consistancy, magic word of the day.


Scotty

 

[jscunn]

Extremes, in any trait, even %IMF is bad news. Most Angus cattle naturally marble well to grade Choice. I have seen some high IMF cattle with bad udders, no scrotal development, bad feet and legs, slab sided . I think you are wrong about this carcass thing. The most important traits are the ones without any true numbers, Disposition, fertility, and udder structure. That is what you cattle are suppose to do first and foremost is make more cattle. :lol:

I do agree with your BW examples though, remember a cow is going to have a calf that is ~ 7% of her body weight (1000# = 70# and 1500# = 105#) Mother nature will take care of the rest.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Well, I disagree about the BW ratio. I have cows that weigh 1600 to 1700 lbs. and they give birth to calves that weigh in the low 80's to sometimes the lower to mid-90 range. But, that is like my one big cow that weighes 1647lbs. You take 7% of her body weight, the calf would weigh 115lbs. I don't agree, sorry.

 

[MikeC]

Well, I disagree about the BW ratio. I have cows that weigh 1600 to 1700 lbs. and they give birth to calves that weigh in the low 80's to sometimes the lower to mid-90 range. But, that is like my one big cow that weighes 1647lbs. You take 7% of her body weight, the calf would weigh 115lbs. I don't agree, sorry.

I have to disagree with the "BW to Cow Weight Ratio" as being 7% also.

I hardly ever have a calf over 90 lbs off my 1500 lb cows and I don't necessarily breed to small BW bulls either. Biggest calf I have ever seen born live was 142 lbs off a 1200 lb cow. Brangus.

 

[Brandonm2]

I have to agree with Mike. Big Cows have bigger calves (typically); BUT that 7% of a cow's mature weight is not a relationship I have found to be an accurate predictor of birth weight. I have seen 1500++ pound mature cows have 72 pound calves and I have pulled 115 pound calves out of 950 pound heifers (and not bred to a high birth wt bull).

 

[aggie03]

I think all Scotty is trying to say is that instead of focusing on ONE or two EPDs that breeders should look for more balanced EPDs set. Creating a goal in you own herd and mating your cows to the bulls that will produce the goal EPDS is very important. Producing a consistant product is what the consumers want. Cattle are bred to produce meat!! Breeding heifers and bulls that have good carcass traits with balanced production EPDs is the target for seedstock producers. Keeping the heifers to continue the tradition and selling the bull to build the market in the right direction. Just my opinion.

 

[Dap]

What do you think of this PPS thing instead of EPD's. http://www.cowcreekbulls.com/Profit%20P ... ndexes.htm
I have seen a few other articles and I like the concept. I would guess that one problem is that not everyone will agree on which traits most impact profit, and therefore we won't agree on the traits that should be weighted the heaviest to create the index.

 

[Brandonm2]

Maybe I am a stick in the mud; but I like the EPD system better. IF somebody wants to chase only weaning weight they can (at their own risk). IF somebody is just worried about not losing any of his heifers, he has the birth wt and calving ease, EPDs. Somebody who sells on the rail has the IMF, Fat, and REA EPDs, and people who are focused on producing heifers have the total Maternal (Milk+Growth) number, the Milk EPD, Scrotal circumference, daughter's calving ease, and the Angus people have the EN cow efficiency EPD. The EPD system give us unparalleled decision making ability to identify weaknesses in our own cows (assuming a Reg herd) and pick the bull that is most needed to compensate for those weaknesses. EPDs aren't perfect; but they are the best system we have ever had; when visual evaluation, bull's/breeder's reputation, and individual performance are factored in. Simplifying that to 2 or 3 profit indexes I think weakens the power of the data.