Bred Heifer Feeding?

[Stocker Steve]

I bought back some thin 9 weight heifers that are due to calve in 3 months. :shock: They were discounted because most folks like the fat 11 weights.

How much would you push the feed at this point?

 

[Oldtimer]

I bought back some thin 9 weight heifers that are due to calve in 3 months. :shock: They were discounted because most folks like the fat 11 weights.

How much would you push the feed at this point?

I wouldn't...Most my heifers are only about 900-950 weight when they calve...But they are smaller framed probably then yours... This late in the game- I'd just give them adeguate feed to be as close to 5 BCS- and not push it anymore...
The biggest calving mistake I made one year was when I was calving a bunch of heifers that came in kind of thin- felt sorry for them because of the cold and snow- and sorted them off and lotted them away from the cows and gave them free access to some top quality hay and protein tubs for a couple months before they calved... Little exercise- and high protein in the last trimester ended up with a wreck of several pulls and a couple of C- sections- from what normally was a low BW bull...
I don't want them skinny or underfed- nor in a weak condition- but personally I'd just as soon as have them a little underweight then overweight at calving time....

 

[angus9259]

I'd give them high quality hay with a target bcs of 6 until the spring grass comes out.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I wormed the new heifers and also gave them all the shots yesterday. They are in a sheltered yard and deep bedded before the storm blew in... loading up on 10% CP hay and a little distillers.

After your notes - - I looked things over and I decided that some of my retained heifers are too fat. They are on forage only, but I have been retaining the good doers and that is obviously more than enough feed for some of them.

 

[dun]

I looked things over and I decided that some of my retained heifers are too fat. They are on forage only, but I have been retaining the good doers and that is obviously more than enough feed for some of them.

I run into the same problem because of selecting the way we have, but we've never had problems with heifrrs calving on their own, raising their calves and breeding back.

 

[Oldtimer]

If possible- the best thing to help eliminate calving problems is that they have plenty of exercise... Thats the reason I hate to lot heifers for a very long period...I prefer to pasture calve- and like to feed them where they have to walk a ways picking up their hay and coming in for water and can go out and graze...(With our snow probably won't happen this year)...

My heifers are in good shape- but came off pasture this fall that way- and I've just fed enough to maintain that shape...
But some of the biggest calving problems I've seen have come about when pouring too much protein to heifers the last trimester...A few years back- one of Leachmans angus co-operators had a group of low BW EPD cows- bred to real low BW EPD bulls-- and ended up getting a bunch of 90-110 Lb calves...They determined it was because he had fed them some top quality high protein 3rd cutting alfalfa hay the last trimester....(I remember he had a hard time convincing folks that those bull calves would still be calving ease- even tho the genetics indicated that)

 

[Stocker Steve]

I agree with advantages of pasture calving.
I did not realize that protein effected birth weight much.
and I am feeding second cutting alfalfa... Bought it for $20 a roll from a diary because it had been rained on.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Research has shown that there is a higher incidence of dystocia with thin cows than with fat cows.
Having said that, yes, protein will increase BW. The same research said that calves were 10# heavier at birth after increasing feed, but did not affect calving.
Cows need carbs more than they need high protein. 2nd cut alfalfa is a bit rich for late gestation cattle. You would be better off diluting the great alfalfa with whole shell corn.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Having said that, yes, protein will increase BW. The same research said that calves were 10# heavier at birth after increasing feed

Any idea why protein, not carbs, drives BW?

Sounds like cows should only get grass hay?

 

[3waycross]

Having said that, yes, protein will increase BW. The same research said that calves were 10# heavier at birth after increasing feed

Any idea why protein, not carbs, drives BW?

Sounds like cows should only get grass hay?

Carbs = energy
Protien= growth

Too many carbs make you fat not more muscular.

 

[angus9259]

Research has shown that there is a higher incidence of dystocia with thin cows than with fat cows.
Having said that, yes, protein will increase BW. The same research said that calves were 10# heavier at birth after increasing feed, but did not affect calving.

I've read this over and over again and it's changed my view of feeding cattle. Whenever I can, I feed better hay in late gestation especially to heifers. Good feed may increase BW but studies have shown REDUCES calving problems.

Cows need carbs more than they need high protein. 2nd cut alfalfa is a bit rich for late gestation cattle. You would be better off diluting the great alfalfa with whole shell corn.


I didn't know this. Why is that? My vet says she gives good protein hay in late gestation. Not saying she's right - just what she suggests. Seems like the milk production would require sufficient protein as well.

 

[dun]

After a 45 day weaning period we turn the retained heifers out with the cow herd (no more grain just pasutre or hay). I didn;t do the average but the lowest gain from coming off of the weaning ration to breeding was 1.12 lbs a day, the highest was 1.87.

 

[Oldtimer]

Research has shown that there is a higher incidence of dystocia with thin cows than with fat cows.
Having said that, yes, protein will increase BW. The same research said that calves were 10# heavier at birth after increasing feed, but did not affect calving.

I've read this over and over again and it's changed my view of feeding cattle. Whenever I can, I feed better hay in late gestation especially to heifers. Good feed may increase BW but studies have shown REDUCES calving problems.

Cows need carbs more than they need high protein. 2nd cut alfalfa is a bit rich for late gestation cattle. You would be better off diluting the great alfalfa with whole shell corn.


I didn't know this. Why is that? My vet says she gives good protein hay in late gestation. Not saying she's right - just what she suggests. Seems like the milk production would require sufficient protein as well.

And that is what I save my second cutting and good alfalfa hay for is after calving begins... In this cold weather- the cows actually get more heat from grass hay and straw then they do from good alfalfa as its too washy....

50+ years ago when I was younger- my Dad and Uncles had a dairy (which I hated and avoided as much as possible)- besides the range cattle...And they used all the good alfalfa, especially the 2nd and 3rd cuttings for the dairy cows-- and the poorer quality and grass hay, and straw went to the range cows-- and those cows did good.....

Also I'm like Dun-- after about a 3 week or so weaning period where they are lotted and get a little grain mainly to gentle them down- my heifers get kicked out with the old cows where they learn what the real world will be like.....

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Old Timer said: "And that is what I save my second cutting and good alfalfa hay for is after calving begins... In this cold weather- the cows actually get more heat from grass hay and straw then they do from good alfalfa as its too washy...."
this is exactly correct. Yes, you need some protein, YOU NEED BALANCE. But a cow only NEEDS about maybe a 10-12% protein grass hay to stay in good condition. I'm not a nutritionist (hubby was) but that's about what I remember. We feed baleage, mostly grass hay w/ clover - usually runs around 15-16% protein. Little richer than they NEED, but we calve starting in Jan, so after they calve, they really utilize the protein. Yes, I feel our BW's are higher than they might be on another farm, but no calving problems & my cows are usually cycling 30-45 days after calving.

 

[Stocker Steve]

We made a lot of rank "poor" hay this year due to record rains. Tests 10 to 11% CP...
I usually buy better hay then this since the trucking cost is the same same and there is more TDN.

 

[TexasBred]

Old Timer said: "And that is what I save my second cutting and good alfalfa hay for is after calving begins... In this cold weather- the cows actually get more heat from grass hay and straw then they do from good alfalfa as its too washy...."
this is exactly correct. Yes, you need some protein, YOU NEED BALANCE. But a cow only NEEDS about maybe a 10-12% protein grass hay to stay in good condition. I'm not a nutritionist (hubby was) but that's about what I remember. We feed baleage, mostly grass hay w/ clover - usually runs around 15-16% protein. Little richer than they NEED, but we calve starting in Jan, so after they calve, they really utilize the protein. Yes, I feel our BW's are higher than they might be on another farm, but no calving problems & my cows are usually cycling 30-45 days after calving.

That's more protein than the cow needs but not more than the cow and calf need....she needs the protein for milk production as well as to maintain some body condition. Hopefully when warmer weather comes she's simply grazing good pasture and has also bred back. You could add some corn to the ration for the lactating cattle to lower the overall protein in the diet and increase the energy duing the colder months but it's not absolutely necessary.

 

[BRAFORDMAN]

Good hay and protein tubs will work. Salt and mineral blocks will help them too. The cow will only lick what she needs. Make sure they have good exercise as well.
I have never had a problem with heifers on protein tubs and calving. As long as the heifers are a good size when they calve they should be fine.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Old Timer said: "And that is what I save my second cutting and good alfalfa hay for is after calving begins... In this cold weather- the cows actually get more heat from grass hay and straw then they do from good alfalfa as its too washy...."
this is exactly correct. Yes, you need some protein, YOU NEED BALANCE. But a cow only NEEDS about maybe a 10-12% protein grass hay to stay in good condition. I'm not a nutritionist (hubby was) but that's about what I remember. We feed baleage, mostly grass hay w/ clover - usually runs around 15-16% protein. Little richer than they NEED, but we calve starting in Jan, so after they calve, they really utilize the protein. Yes, I feel our BW's are higher than they might be on another farm, but no calving problems & my cows are usually cycling 30-45 days after calving.

That's more protein than the cow needs but not more than the cow and calf need....she needs the protein for milk production as well as to maintain some body condition. Hopefully when warmer weather comes she's simply grazing good pasture and has also bred back. You could add some corn to the ration for the lactating cattle to lower the overall protein in the diet and increase the energy duing the colder months but it's not absolutely necessary.

I'ts a trade-off. Here in NY it is like pulling teeth to get 4 days straight with no rain. Nearly impossible to put up June hay unless it's silage or baleage. We compromise & let our hay get a little further along than a dairyman might, so we get more tonnage & less protein - but we have good quality hay put up instead of moldy crappy dry hay. We try to put our 2nd cutting up dry, but won't wait forever for the weather - again, don't want to wait til our hay is too old for quality.
It would be pretty much impossible for us to suppliment the cowherd with corn. First, I'm not physically wanting to try to lug that much corn & don't have any way to feed it to the cows. You absolutely can't feed on the ground out here. Well, unless you have mega bucks to waste. :banana:
And, yes, we usually have most of the cows bred prior to full turn out (end of April). We have a different problem with breeding on our spring grass caused by too high a protein - that's another subject - and that's when it WOULD pay for us to feed corn to the cows.

 

[TexasBred]

Jeannie given the choice I would err on the side of too much protein rather than a shortage. They can find a way to use some of the excess as well. Sounds like you folks have it lined out well. Good luck in the "cold" north. ;-)