Bottle Calf Scours-diagnosis and more...

[spinandslide]

My BC last night, she was acting normal, Fed her some Calf Manna, took her outside of her pen on the lead, she ate abit of grass. Then put her back in her pen. She was not very interested in her bottles, although I finally got her to drink about 2 pints and she took two small sips of water and ate abit more calf manna on her own.

While she was kind of quiet, she still was alert and standing and wanting to be scratched.

Then I saw it... Liquid water poo...Im at a loss at whats causing it. She has not been vacc-ed yet, as I was waiting til 2 months. She is by herself completly. Im wondering if it might be shes been eating more calf manna and its causing a tummy upset? Shes had typical bottle calf poo, but this was liquid watery looking.

This am, she drank about a pint, was up and standing, waiting for me. I gave her some probios and will go home at lunch and pick up some electrolytes for her. I put her in my big horse pen with the run in shed by herself and she investigated and romped for abit, before settling in the corner next to the pony's pen.

I cant find my themometer, so I dont have a temp. Im hesitant to give antibiotics, as I dont want to kill off the good bacteria in her gut.

I was told to not give her any more milk replacer, as it will encourage "bad" bacterial growth in her gut. Is this true? Should I just be giving her an electrolyte solution?

She was also trying to lick my legs...inbalance of salt in her system perhaps? She has never done that before.... (yes, I was in shorts... )

Im kind of worried about this..any help/advice/suggestions would be great.

Thanks
Sarah

 

[milkmaid]

It's not uncommon for calves to get scours, and it really has almost nothing to do with whether they've been vaccinated or not. Most of the common pathogens that cause scours are ones we don't vaccinate for -- like ecoli, salmonella, coccidiosis, crypto, etc. Wouldn't have done you a bit of good to vaccinate her with the standard 5-way viral and 8-way clostridial vaccinations.

How much milk is she drinking now in relation to how much she'd been drinking before?

One of the most important things with calves that have scours, is that the fluid intake meets or exceeds the fluid loss; otherwise you end up with a dehydrated calf.

Yes and no, the milk may encourage some bacteria growth, but on the other hand it's an easy way of getting fluids into her and it will keep her strength up. If the scours were caused by getting too much milk (usually 50% more than the normal amount), I'd suggest cutting back and the scours would likely disappear on their own. However, it sounds more like she has a "bug" of some sort, in which case you might need to treat her. Don't worry about killing off the good bacteria; they're easy to repopulate.

I've never taken the temp on a scouring calf and really don't know if it would be that far from normal.

How old is she now?

 

[spinandslide]

Hey MM

She was drinking about 5 pints per feeding and now shes only drinking one per feeding. But Im told the Calf Manna has milk in it and shes been eating that..

I spoke with my vet briefly on the phone. He says its either a bug or to much milk intake. I Immediatly shook off the increased intake, but now knowing the calf manna has quite abit of milk in it, Im wondering if that was not a contributing factor. She has been eating it well the last 2 days.

I dont know if I particularly want to take her temp with her scours, but Im going to try to find my themometer at lunch and take it.

Shes prob coming up on a 3 weeks now. Vet also said to give her sulfer pills and "live culture" yogurt/Probios with her electrolytes.

I am worried with all Ive been told about calves going downhill fast with the scours and dieing..

Sarah

 

[milkmaid]

I've seen very few calves that "went downhill fast" -- with most it's a slow progression downwards over several days. I wouldn't be stressing too much about it at this point.

Since she's only getting 10 pints per day -- 5 quarts -- that's just barely over a gallon, which shouldn't be an issue for a 3 week old calf, I'd suspect it's a bug of some sort. Is she getting regular grain and hay too, or just calf manna?

 

[spinandslide]

I've seen very few calves that "went downhill fast" -- with most it's a slow progression downwards over several days. I wouldn't be stressing too much about it at this point.

Since she's only getting 10 pints per day -- 5 quarts -- that's just barely over a gallon, which shouldn't be an issue for a 3 week old calf, I'd suspect it's a bug of some sort. Is she getting regular grain and hay too, or just calf manna?

Just Calf Manna and chews on coastal, not sure if shes actually eaten any. She has gone to town on the calf manna lately. that is why I cut back her milk, she was on 8 pints a feeding.

 

[spinandslide]

Update
Got electrolytes into her at lunch..she woofed the mixture down. seemed to be abit more active, as she tried to mow me over thinking I had more.

We will watch and see...

 

[larryshoat]

How much calf manna is she eating ?

Larry

 

[msscamp]

Considering that she was fine prior to you taking her out to eat a bit of grass, I would be most interested to know how long she had access to that grass. I'm guessing she simply over did the grass when her system wasn't used to it, and she will be fine in a few days. I believe I would feed her plain old grass hay, stop/cut down on her grain for a few days, monitor her, and see what happened.

 

[spinandslide]

She had mabey 5 blades of grass///honestly

As far as calf manna, she was finishing the 1/4 of the scoop I was giving her in 2 days, along with polishing off her 5 pints a feeding of milk and chewing on abit of hay.

We have abit of blood in her poo this AM

 

[milkmaid]

How does she look/act/drink this morning?

 

[spinandslide]

How does she look/act/drink this morning?

She looks like shes dropped some weight, was alert and standing this AM when I gave her her bottle of Resorb, although I had to syringe some into her mouth before she took the bottle, but once she did, she sucked it down with intent. After that, she seemed very tired, as she was laying down when I went back out. I gave her some yogurt this AM as well, as I was out of Probios.

When I went back out, she had poo smeared all over her butt and there were some blood spots in it.

She is in my big pen with the run in shed to keep her out of the 100 degree heat weve been having.

 

[cowsrus]

blood in poo sounds like it might be coccidiosis. we had some bigger calves with that problem and vet treated them with sulfur pills and told us to get some Corrid and put in their water.Also gave them electolites and milk replacer to replace fluids they had lost.

 

[milkmaid]

I'd get at least 2 quarts of water (preferably +electrolytes) into her 3 times every 24 hours, minimum. In a 100 degree heat wave a calf is at high risk of dehydration when they're losing fluids. Tube her if you need to.

It's Friday... I'd make sure you have everything on hand that you need (or might need) before the weekend. Electrolytes, tubing equipment, vitamin B, lactated ringers or saline solution (can you IV?)... that kind of thing. What antibiotics do you have? I keep a lot of stuff on hand at all times... may not ever use it on the calf it was purchased for, but if I ever need it I have it.

Chances are if you just keep her hydrated, her immune system will eventually overwhelm this "bug" and she'll recover pretty much on her own. I still wouldn't worry about it too much, but I would advise having everything you may need as it's better to be overprepared than underprepared.

 

[spinandslide]

I talked with the vet and I have a menagirie of stuff for this calf now.

He gave me Bio Sponge, a paste that is suppossed to help regulate the digestive tract.
Also, Excellenex (sp?) I cnt read the dear man's writing...she is going to get one shot for three days..I beleive he said it was some sort of antiboiotic.
Got some Corid from him as wel. at 4 weeks, he felt she was alittle young to get coccislios, but he figured we'd put it in her anyway.

and he said to dose her with Pepto as well...which we have at home.

Picked up a new tube of probios and some more Resorb as well.

Now, the Resorb says to only give the calf 2 quarts 2 times a day, no more..is more times safe?
I havent mastered IV-ing yet, but my friend and neighbor can in a wink..regardless, if it comes down she needs to be tubed, Ill be calling my vet. I hate to pay the emergency charge, but I DO NOT know how too...and I dont want to cause further damage to her.

We'll see how the weekend pans out...thanks to everyone for the tips and advice. Vet said Im doing all I can do for her now...

 

[syork]

When i have a calf with scours that bad I always put cornstarch in their milk till the milk looks a tad thickened. It has worked wonders with my scouring calves. If I am in a pinch and its on a weekend and the feed stores are closed i use regular fruit punch gatorade the only problem with that is you will occasionly have a calf that becomes addicted to it :lol: I had a calf one time that loved it i couldnt walk in the pen area with a bottle of gatorade without him wanting my bottle so i got the sports cap and when he did i just let him have it :lol: I have brought calves back from the brink of death by just sitting there for hours just spooning a bit of water and elctrolyes in his mouth a little at a time till he got back on his feet. As long as they are getting liquids of some sort they can pull thru but it takes a heck alot of time on your part to pull these sick calves thru. I use pig wormer when it gits bad and for some reason it works wonders.

 

[milkmaid]

Resorb has a pH of 4.3 when reconsituted... I wouldn't go beyond the manufacturer's recommendation on that one since scouring animals tend toward acidosis anyway. If they say 2x/day then 2x/day it is. You can give her a bottle with milk replacer or just cold water midway through the day to help get the extra fluids into her. Thing is, a calf can easily lose a half gallon of fluid before dehydration even becomes apparent, so it's essential to make sure she does get those fluids. In hot weather I suspect she'll probably be pretty good about drinking.

I'm thinking she'll be fine and she's certainly in good hands. Best of luck with her.

 

[larryshoat]

I talked with the vet and I have a menagirie of stuff for this calf now.

He gave me Bio Sponge, a paste that is suppossed to help regulate the digestive tract.
Also, Excellenex (sp?) I cnt read the dear man's writing...she is going to get one shot for three days..I beleive he said it was some sort of antiboiotic.
Got some Corid from him as wel. at 4 weeks, he felt she was alittle young to get coccislios, but he figured we'd put it in her anyway.

and he said to dose her with Pepto as well...which we have at home.

Picked up a new tube of probios and some more Resorb as well.

Now, the Resorb says to only give the calf 2 quarts 2 times a day, no more..is more times safe?
I havent mastered IV-ing yet, but my friend and neighbor can in a wink..regardless, if it comes down she needs to be tubed, Ill be calling my vet. I hate to pay the emergency charge, but I DO NOT know how too...and I dont want to cause further damage to her.

We'll see how the weekend pans out...thanks to everyone for the tips and advice. Vet said Im doing all I can do for her now...

Excenel ? I can read your vets mind all the way from Texas, he is thinking Salmonella . To that I usually add Tylan 200 and Banamine . If you could get your neigbhor to come and get some lactated ringers in him that would help .To borrow a term from milkmaid we're at the " mercy of the digestive system" as far as fluid intake goes .

Larry

 

[spinandslide]

Update-
She is still alive

She was abit difficult to get the milk and electrolytes into On Saturday and we spent a good deal of time fighting the syringe. She drank ALOT of water over the weekend, some Im wondering if she got full on that and didnt want anymore...regardless, she got a good portion of the milk/electrolyte mixture into her. Poo was still quite runny and bloody.

Yesterday AM, she was up and waiting for me at the gate at feedtime, she drank 3 pints of milk and electrolyes :banana: ..acted very socialable, wanting her itchy spot on her neck scratched. then she has bad watery poo ad acted like she didnt feel well.

I spent the whole AM cleaning out my goat's pen and sanitizing it and stretching a tarp.Then I moved her to the pen, which I did because she was sleeping in the back of the horse's run in shed and getting hardly any air on her. she drank a good amount of water and had a great breeze on her yesterday and was in the shade. Drank abit under a pint of milk last night and this AM drank all her milk(4 pints). Shes got good quality coastal hay and has nibbled abit. Seemed alot more social last night and this AM, more alert as well. Poo still had some blood, but had more mass to it this AM, closer to normal.

She has finished her antibotic shots, bio sponge and resorb..has 2 more days of Corid.

I am HOPING we are on the road to mending...

 

[spinandslide]

I talked with the vet and I have a menagirie of stuff for this calf now.

He gave me Bio Sponge, a paste that is suppossed to help regulate the digestive tract.
Also, Excellenex (sp?) I cnt read the dear man's writing...she is going to get one shot for three days..I beleive he said it was some sort of antiboiotic.
Got some Corid from him as wel. at 4 weeks, he felt she was alittle young to get coccislios, but he figured we'd put it in her anyway.

and he said to dose her with Pepto as well...which we have at home.

Picked up a new tube of probios and some more Resorb as well.

Now, the Resorb says to only give the calf 2 quarts 2 times a day, no more..is more times safe?
I havent mastered IV-ing yet, but my friend and neighbor can in a wink..regardless, if it comes down she needs to be tubed, Ill be calling my vet. I hate to pay the emergency charge, but I DO NOT know how too...and I dont want to cause further damage to her.

We'll see how the weekend pans out...thanks to everyone for the tips and advice. Vet said Im doing all I can do for her now...

Excenel ? I can read your vets mind all the way from Texas, he is thinking Salmonella . To that I usually add Tylan 200 and Banamine . If you could get your neigbhor to come and get some lactated ringers in him that would help .To borrow a term from milkmaid we're at the " mercy of the digestive system" as far as fluid intake goes .

Larry

boy, you are good at mind reading! that is it.
My vet just told me it was something that he would reccomend for scours..he said that or sulfer tablets and since I prefer injections over having to fight to get an animal to eat something...he made me up the shots.

Is blood in their poo a sign of samonella?