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Black leg....a doozer of a question

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rockridgecattle

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Can you breed for black leg resistance in cattle :oops:

OH BOY. Okay some background...hopefully brief.

I belong to a website for bees. Some are talking about breeding genetics to withstand mite loads and disease loads. "traditional husbandry" was the word. I was trying to compare like say to cattle and vaccinations are part of a solution. I was trying to draw on 15 years of cattle experience in the genetics. I mean you can breed out thing like conformity, and choose stock that is thrifty, feed efficient, health strong....but can we actually breed out BVD or IBR or black leg for that matter.
....someone tried to spin that you can breed in resistance to black leg...oh where is Vicki the Vet when you need her...any takers on this one.
Is it true or is it a line of bull...
 

Workinonit Farm

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Hmmmm. I don't think you could breed for specific disease resistance, as in resistant to any specific diseases. But I do think it could be possible to breed for good immune systems and 'strong constitutions' in a way. Besides good management practices, I think there are some animals (individuals) be it cows, horses, dogs, people etc that are more 'prone' to being 'sickly' than other individuals.

Know what I mean?

Katherine
 

msscamp

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rockridgecattle":2rssr7hh said:
Can you breed for black leg resistance in cattle :oops:

I'm by no means an infectious disease expert, but it does stand to reason that you could possibly breed for black leg resistance. Think about it - the black leg bacteria lives in the soil, does it not? It comes to the surface when the soil is disturbed, during periods of excessive rain fall, or a multitude of other things that disturb the soil - does it not? If something happened to cause it to come to the surface and an animal received a low level exposure to the black leg bacteria, that animal would develop antibodies to it - just as it does when vaccinated against the disease, would it not? If that animal was a heifer or cow, those antibodies would be passed on to the calf. If whatever was causing the bacteria to resurface continued to happen, it would 'booster' the calf(and every other animal in the herd). The immune system is an amazing thing, and it does make sense - but whether it's possible in the real world or not is beyond me. My thoughts in response to your question! :)
 

CKC1586

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Interesting and thought provoking....yes where oh where is VtV? Sure miss that fine lady. Anyway if some breeds are naturally insect resistant .... why not disease resistant??????????????????????????
 

redcowsrule33

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A well-known immunologist researching BVD used Jerseys and Scottish Highlanders. Said Jerseys were the most susceptible breed and SH's were the least. I have no idea what he based that on but....
 

farmwriter

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I gotta think if it were do-able some university egg-head would have worked it out already.
 

S&WSigma40VEShooter

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rockridgecattle":299rlwjw said:
Can you breed for black leg resistance in cattle :oops:

OH BOY. Okay some background...hopefully brief.

I belong to a website for bees. Some are talking about breeding genetics to withstand mite loads and disease loads. "traditional husbandry" was the word. I was trying to compare like say to cattle and vaccinations are part of a solution. I was trying to draw on 15 years of cattle experience in the genetics. I mean you can breed out thing like conformity, and choose stock that is thrifty, feed efficient, health strong....but can we actually breed out BVD or IBR or black leg for that matter.
....someone tried to spin that you can breed in resistance to black leg...oh where is Vicki the Vet when you need her...any takers on this one.
Is it true or is it a line of bull...


Honestly, I would have to say a line of bull. Yeah we can breed out red carriers, etc but not diseases as they have the ability to mutate in order to survive. Granted some genes do as well but not as much so as diseases.
 

shloh1981

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Seems to me that bees can do it because they multiply so rapidly compared to cows. At the rate that cattle reproduce they could never keep up with mutating viruses and bacteria. Just a guess.
 

S&WSigma40VEShooter

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shloh1981":3lgjf8qb said:
Seems to me that bees can do it because they multiply so rapidly compared to cows. At the rate that cattle reproduce they could never keep up with mutating viruses and bacteria. Just a guess.


A good guess at that.
 

dun

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For a ggod number of years now they;ve been trying to develop a mastitis free strain of dairy cattle. They're looking down in the DNA level to come up with something. They're still workng on the SCC probelm in dairy and haven;t come up with that yet.
 

kenny thomas

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I'll bet there won't be much research for it. Who would buy the vaccine if the cattle was resistent? No company is going to put money into something that will take money away from them.
Something to think about though. If cattle live their life where the spores are present looks like some resistance would develop and be passed on.
 

S&WSigma40VEShooter

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kenny thomas":egcpow9x said:
I'll bet there won't be much research for it. Who would buy the vaccine if the cattle was resistent? No company is going to put money into something that will take money away from them.
Something to think about though. If cattle live their life where the spores are present looks like some resistance would develop and be passed on.


Exactly, just like we are technologically advanced enough to cure aids, and even terminal forms of cancer, yet we dont because there is no money in it.
 

rockridgecattle

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I am beginnning to think that if it were possible, we should have as a human race developed some sort of immunity to certain diseases and we would not have need of vaccines.
for example:
polio
german measles
measles
chicken pox
the plague
yet we still vaccinate for these diseases and these diseases have been around for a long, long time.
edit, the plague not vaccinated for
how about the common cold...there should be a genetic immunity by now for sure...everyone gets a variation of it and has for a really really long time.
 

ga. prime

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msscamp":qxm2qt5r said:
an animal received a low level exposure to the black leg bacteria, that animal would develop antibodies to it - just as it does when vaccinated against the disease, would it not? :)
It would not. What would happen is it would get blackleg or it would not and if it did not, you would not know that it was ever exposed to it and it could get blackleg at a later date from a subsequent exposure. I have no proof of this. It's just what I think.:)
 

milkmaid

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I don't know, but it's an interesting question you bring up. In regards to blackleg, per the example you gave (edit: looks like I was looking at the one msscamp gave), that would just be keeping a group of cattle around that have immunity to blackleg because of exposure. They may have good immune systems because you breed for a hearty group of cattle, but each calf is still born without any antibodies to the disease and must still acquire them from colostrum and/or exposure (natural or vaccine-induced). Without colostrum from cattle in that group, or exposure, the calves would still be succeptible to blackleg.

In the case of HIV, I am told there are people that are resistant, mainly because some of their white blood cells (what HIV attacks) do not function in the way that most of humankind's WBCs do (what we'd consider normal), and HIV cannot enter. Were we to breed cattle that blackleg could not infect, we'd have to create something that wasn't "normal" and - offhand I don't know the route of infection - it may or may not be possible to create cattle that could not be infected by the blackleg bacteria.
 

KNERSIE

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If you think you can manage to breed a line of cattle resistant to blackleg, you might as well go ahead and breed them resistant to the multiple strains of Clostridial diseases.

People that use the argument that since the very beginning there were these diseases and yet we still have live wild animals tend to forget that mass deaths was nature's way of controlling the population size and there were no fences so the herds would migrate away from the infected area to look for fresh grazing.

On the AIDS and terminal cancer issue, I sincerely wish somebody would find a cure for cancer and sincerely wish they wouldn't for AIDS. I have a cousin who is a specialist who is researching possible AIDS cures in the UK and believe me they aren't even close to finding a cure, but there are numerous ways to slow the process down. Maybe it would have been more usefull if they could find something to hasten the process instead.
 

gberry

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Somebody with AIDS do something mean to you Knersie?

I think blackleg resistance could be bred into cattle, but it will never happen. The reason is that very large portions of the population would have to be exposed to get a very few survivors. Those survivors would likely have some genetic advantage in dealing with clostridium and could pass that on. After a few generations that were exposed and killed in large numbers, the remaining few would be more resistant.

There are examples in humans of genetic resistance to infectious diseases. Perhaps the best examples would be sickle cell trait and thalassemia which confer some resistance to malaria to those affected. Of course, both of these come with some unwanted baggage (sickle cell disease and thalassemia major) which make them much less desirable in areas where malaria is not prevalent.

In other words, I think it may be possible to breed for resistance to a certain disease, but you are likely to end up with some unwanted undesirable effects that would make you wish you had just vaccinated.
 

msscamp

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ga. prime":o35t1pb9 said:
msscamp":o35t1pb9 said:
an animal received a low level exposure to the black leg bacteria, that animal would develop antibodies to it - just as it does when vaccinated against the disease, would it not? :)
It would not. What would happen is it would get blackleg or it would not and if it did not, you would not know that it was ever exposed to it and it could get blackleg at a later date from a subsequent exposure. I have no proof of this. It's just what I think.:)

Whatever you think.
 

Txwalt

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rockridgecattle":341r6a98 said:
Can you breed for black leg resistance in cattle :oops:

Possibly. If some cattle already have resistance. I don't think it is practical though, even if it is possible.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra ... 04_05.html

"Reading a chronological history, biologists traced the HIV-resistance gene mutation back about 700 years. That was the time at which the Black Death -- bubonic plague -- swept like a deadly scythe through Europe, killing one-third of the population. Then, as now, there were individuals who survived the lethal organism, perhaps because it could not enter their white blood cells. The areas that were hardest hit by the Black Plague match those where the gene for HIV resistance is the most common today."

Walt
 

S&WSigma40VEShooter

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KNERSIE":1e0dlawl said:
If you think you can manage to breed a line of cattle resistant to blackleg, you might as well go ahead and breed them resistant to the multiple strains of Clostridial diseases.

People that use the argument that since the very beginning there were these diseases and yet we still have live wild animals tend to forget that mass deaths was nature's way of controlling the population size and there were no fences so the herds would migrate away from the infected area to look for fresh grazing.

On the AIDS and terminal cancer issue, I sincerely wish somebody would find a cure for cancer and sincerely wish they wouldn't for AIDS. I have a cousin who is a specialist who is researching possible AIDS cures in the UK and believe me they aren't even close to finding a cure, but there are numerous ways to slow the process down. Maybe it would have been more usefull if they could find something to hasten the process instead.


I know for a fact clorox will kill it. Now if they can find a way to inject that into someone without killin em we would have that cure.
 
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