Black Herefords Question

[Caustic Burno]

It doesn't matter what you view it is not realistic in the worlds beef supply it is the dominant influence

 

[dun]

It doesn't matter what you view it is not realistic in the worlds beef supply it is the dominant influence

Maybe in the "world" it is. But most of us don;t supply the world, we have a geographic area that bys our cattle and finishes them to slaughter. In our area, ear will get you killed at sale time.

 

[Caustic Burno]

It doesn't matter what you view it is not realistic in the worlds beef supply it is the dominant influence

Maybe in the "world" it is. But most of us don;t supply the world, we have a geographic area that bys our cattle and finishes them to slaughter. In our area, ear will get you killed at sale time.

Most of the US beef goes through ten feedlots with seven located in the Midwest .
Cargill alone processes over 9 million head a year we have no clue to where they send it.
Secondly most of the imported beef is Brahman influence like it or not that is what you are competing with.

 

[Muddy]

You meant Bos indicus. Most imported beef is very inferior and usually cheaper than local raised beef. Heck we didn't know what breed of cattle they raised and sent the beef to us. But please put your Brahman pimping away. Nobody asked about what breeds that supplied the world's beef supply, just why the other black breeds are better than Black Herefords.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You meant Bos indicus. Most imported beef is very inferior and usually cheaper than local raised beef. Heck we didn't know what breed of cattle they raised and sent the beef to us. But please put your Brahman pimping away. Nobody asked about what breeds that supplied the world's beef supply, just why the other black breeds are better than Black Herefords.

Call back under your rock pecker head
If you don't think we are competing against the global market your dumber than I thought

 

[Muddy]

You meant Bos indicus. Most imported beef is very inferior and usually cheaper than local raised beef. Heck we didn't know what breed of cattle they raised and sent the beef to us. But please put your Brahman pimping away. Nobody asked about what breeds that supplied the world's beef supply, just why the other black breeds are better than Black Herefords.

Call back under your rock pecker head

:lol: you could do better than making some personal insults. But let's not get derailing the subject.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Your not worth my time

Nuff said

 

[Lazy M]

You meant Bos indicus. Most imported beef is very inferior and usually cheaper than local raised beef. Heck we didn't know what breed of cattle they raised and sent the beef to us. But please put your Brahman pimping away. Nobody asked about what breeds that supplied the world's beef supply, just why the other black breeds are better than Black Herefords.

Call back under your rock pecker head
If you don't think we are competing against the global market your dumber than I thought

My concern with this line of thought is that if we have to compete based on quantity of meat, Brazil has us beat. Their beef herd is way larger than the US, but their environment requires a heavy brahma influence. My thought is that we should be focusing more on the quality of our beef. I'm not looking for a fight or putting down brahma but I don't think that it is debatable that high percentage brahma meat quality is poor compared to many other breeds. Brahma influence should be minimized to only what your environment requires for your cattle to thrive.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You have had smoke blown up your butt
about Brahman influence taste. I forget the exact figures 30% of the US is influenced as well standing right next to your calf in the feed lot.
The Aussie boys are pumping a lot of mighty fine brahma influenced beef in the market.
70% Of mine or your grade calf is hamburger just fact.
We live in the age of box meat raising a calf trying to get a premium for the loin cause the rest is hamburger headed to the grocery or fast food.
We are trying to compete against a friendlier world environment for raising beef against a more efficient bovine that requires less inputs in sub tropical conditions. We have a hard row to hoe with low fuel cost and higher consumer prices, makes pumping more beef into our market even more profitable

 

[Ebenezer]

Black Herefords are a novelty breed. But they do what many need. They produce a hybrid type cow that is a work and wear type and the cross can pretty much cover up the problems of either breed. If they want to call them a breed, suits me. Their deal. More power to them. They beat a mainstream inferior Angus or a mainstream inferior Hereford just by heterosis.

If Angus or Hereford folks don't like the BH, then the thing to do is to fix the problems of both or either breeds so that there are less ills to know about. That will not happen as long as the current mindset of cattle breeding and associations remains.

 

[Muddy]

You have had smoke blown up your butt
about Brahman influence taste. I forget the exact figures 30% of the US is influenced as well standing right next to your calf in the feed lot.
The Aussie boys are pumping a lot of mighty fine brahma influenced beef in the market.
70% Of mine or your grade calf is hamburger just fact.
We live in the age of box meat raising a calf trying to get a premium for the loin cause the rest is hamburger headed to the grocery or fast food.
We are trying to compete against a friendlier world environment for raising beef against a more efficient bovine that requires less inputs in sub tropical conditions. We have a hard row to hoe with low fuel cost and higher consumer prices, makes pumping more beef into our market even more profitable

:shock: put your pipe down, Caustic Burno and maybe take your tinfoil hat off.

 

[Muddy]

Black Herefords are a novelty breed. But they do what many need. They produce a hybrid type cow that is a work and wear type and the cross can pretty much cover up the problems of either breed. If they want to call them a breed, suits me. Their deal. More power to them. They beat a mainstream inferior Angus or a mainstream inferior Hereford just by heterosis.

If Angus or Hereford folks don't like the BH, then the thing to do is to fix the problems of both or either breeds so that there are less ills to know about. That will not happen as long as the current mindset of cattle breeding and associations remains.

I see no proof that black Hereford fixed the problems of Angus and Herefords have and the black Hereford didn't have much heterosis as the F1 black baldy or true red Herefords have. It's just a watered down black baldy with papers.

 

[Rafter S]

I see no proof that black Hereford fixed the problems of Angus and Herefords have and the black Hereford didn't have much heterosis as the F1 black baldy or true red Herefords have. It's just a watered down black baldy with papers.

You finally said something I agree with.

 

[HDRider]

I've read through this. Maybe I missed it. What is the difference between. "Black Hereford" and a black baldie, Angus/Hereford cross?

 

[32trojan]

I have been following this board for a while now and have never posted or signed up but I thought today would be a good day to come on. I run a small Registered herd of Black Herefords. I am not on here to talk about anything other then clearing up a few misconceptions that have been said on this thread. I know everyone has their own opinion and preference for certain breeds.

First, the ABHA is a membership owned association. Back when the ABHA first started one family did own it and control most aspects of the breed. As time went on they wanted to step back and now the ABHA has a board and all major decisions must go through the membership to get approved. Which brings me to my second point the ABHA is a breed up registry like many others in order to be registered they must have over 62.5% Hereford blood with the remaining being Black Angus, and at 87.5% they are considered Purebred. Other then the hide being black, markings do not matter. I know some people think its odd to see an all black, Black Hereford but it happens and aside from their genetics for face markings, the principal is the same.

In today's ABHA we are free to choose what genetics we would like to use from the Registered Hereford and Angus Associations. The only restriction we have on what we use is they must be from genetic defect free parents. For instance is one wanted to use a L1 Hereford bull on a Angus cow sired by Hoover Dam to create and F1 female they are free to do that. F1's are not registered in the ABHA but are used as breed up stock. So you can then take that F1 female and breed her to any Black Hereford bull over 75% or to any Hereford bull they choose. If the Hereford bull you want to use has not been approved yet for use in the ABHA a small fee is required to get him approved and they you may use who ever you want.

There are other rules that go along with this but it is not as exclusive as some might think. We have opened up the genetic gene pool to all genetic defect free bloodlines in both the AHA and AAA.

Once again I dont want to start any conflicts this is just food for thought and information. I hope maybe it clears some things up. I hope you all have a wonderful day

 

[etmountianman71]

The Black Hereford has a higher percentage of Hereford influence over Angus, vs being just a 50/50 cross of two breeds.

Kind of interesting on this post as well as others, the simple bickering that goes on vs discussions.

This country has seen many breeds *modify* their critters to meet what the market and the consumer demands. Color, size, horned, polled, how long do we have before they *whichever group that might be next* have us cattlemen adding some type of feed or shot to add specialized flavors: Lemon lime or diet, chicken flavored?

 

[cbcr]

There are two different groups that are breeding the Black Hereford. The American Black Hereford Association and then there is also the World Black Hereford Association

 

[Ebenezer]

I have been following this board for a while now and have never posted or signed up but I thought today would be a good day to come on. I run a small Registered herd of Black Herefords. I am not on here to talk about anything other then clearing up a few misconceptions that have been said on this thread. I know everyone has their own opinion and preference for certain breeds.

First, the ABHA is a membership owned association. Back when the ABHA first started one family did own it and control most aspects of the breed. As time went on they wanted to step back and now the ABHA has a board and all major decisions must go through the membership to get approved. Which brings me to my second point the ABHA is a breed up registry like many others in order to be registered they must have over 62.5% Hereford blood with the remaining being Black Angus, and at 87.5% they are considered Purebred. Other then the hide being black, markings do not matter. I know some people think its odd to see an all black, Black Hereford but it happens and aside from their genetics for face markings, the principal is the same.

In today's ABHA we are free to choose what genetics we would like to use from the Registered Hereford and Angus Associations. The only restriction we have on what we use is they must be from genetic defect free parents. For instance is one wanted to use a L1 Hereford bull on a Angus cow sired by Hoover Dam to create and F1 female they are free to do that. F1's are not registered in the ABHA but are used as breed up stock. So you can then take that F1 female and breed her to any Black Hereford bull over 75% or to any Hereford bull they choose. If the Hereford bull you want to use has not been approved yet for use in the ABHA a small fee is required to get him approved and they you may use who ever you want.

There are other rules that go along with this but it is not as exclusive as some might think. We have opened up the genetic gene pool to all genetic defect free bloodlines in both the AHA and AAA.

Once again I dont want to start any conflicts this is just food for thought and information. I hope maybe it clears some things up. I hope you all have a wonderful day

I have not looked so forgive my laziness. What is the stated purpose of Black Herefords? Many in the SE USA and southern USA are looking to red hair for heat issues. So it is somewhat of a reversal on that. Is it a marketing issue?

I see no proof that black Hereford fixed the problems of Angus and Herefords have and the black Hereford didn't have much heterosis as the F1 black baldy or true red Herefords have.

I see no proof that Black Herefords do not fix the problems of Hereford and Angus. Anytime you mix breeds, push the puree button on the genetic blender and mix the genes there is some fraction of heterosis. So I also never said the % hybrid vigor matched baldies but the % difference does matter. Especially in issues of female fertility, longevity, ... A small dose makes a lot of difference or else purebred status in composite or breed up type breeds would not require the 80+% breed component.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I have been following this board for a while now and have never posted or signed up but I thought today would be a good day to come on. I run a small Registered herd of Black Herefords. I am not on here to talk about anything other then clearing up a few misconceptions that have been said on this thread. I know everyone has their own opinion and preference for certain breeds.

First, the ABHA is a membership owned association. Back when the ABHA first started one family did own it and control most aspects of the breed. As time went on they wanted to step back and now the ABHA has a board and all major decisions must go through the membership to get approved. Which brings me to my second point the ABHA is a breed up registry like many others in order to be registered they must have over 62.5% Hereford blood with the remaining being Black Angus, and at 87.5% they are considered Purebred. Other then the hide being black, markings do not matter. I know some people think its odd to see an all black, Black Hereford but it happens and aside from their genetics for face markings, the principal is the same.

In today's ABHA we are free to choose what genetics we would like to use from the Registered Hereford and Angus Associations. The only restriction we have on what we use is they must be from genetic defect free parents. For instance is one wanted to use a L1 Hereford bull on a Angus cow sired by Hoover Dam to create and F1 female they are free to do that. F1's are not registered in the ABHA but are used as breed up stock. So you can then take that F1 female and breed her to any Black Hereford bull over 75% or to any Hereford bull they choose. If the Hereford bull you want to use has not been approved yet for use in the ABHA a small fee is required to get him approved and they you may use who ever you want.

There are other rules that go along with this but it is not as exclusive as some might think. We have opened up the genetic gene pool to all genetic defect free bloodlines in both the AHA and AAA.

Once again I dont want to start any conflicts this is just food for thought and information. I hope maybe it clears some things up. I hope you all have a wonderful day

thank you for posting and :welcome:

 

[elkwc]

Thanks 32trojan for clarifying the rules and goals of the association. I knew I had seen a lot more breeders raising them and the quality improving and more bloodlines available. I knew that Mr Gage who had been a Hereford breeder started them and then I knew the Hoagland's seemed to be the main source for several years. And most of the cattle carried Balder in their name. IMO they didn't interest me alot as Ifelt the quality I need wasn't there. Today I'm seeing some individuals that make me take a second look. When that type of quality becomes available to the commercial breeder at commercial bull prices then I feel you will likely see an increase in interest.

IMO the one reason the quality ran behind for many years was the quality of the base stock the original breeder started with. With the new influx of bloodlines the improvement is noticeable.

IMO the Black Hereford isn't any different than the other black spin offs you see. They are the same as a Simm/Angus, Black Limi, Black Balancer, Black Gelveigh, Black Simi and many others. It is an attempt to get the black hide for marketing purposes and still have whatever breed they desire. IMO they should never be classified as the origianal breed. Once an outside source is brought in they will never be pure again. The same goes for outside sources that were brought into breeds such as Angus and Herefords. I try to avoid the lines I know about that contain these bloodlines but sometimes there are sources you never know about. Each one of these new crosses has to find their niche. I was wanting to look at some Simmentals last year. I called a breeder about his cattle. When he told me his herd was all black I wasn't interested. To me they aren't Simmentals but a cross and at the very least they should be called and marketed as Black Simmentals not Simmentals. But again we each are entitled to our opinion.

In the end I desire the Angus/Hereford F1 cross so will likely stay with that. I like it better than any other cross we have tried to this point.