Birth weights

[polledbull]

I was just looking at a sale book on a bull sale comming up and I was amazed that every bull in book had a BW under 75 LB and almost all of them were in the 60's and some as low as 59lb, it was a coincidence I had just been to a cattleman meeting and we had been talking about the the extreme move to lite birth weights . Can I get some opinions on these lite BW bulls and how you think they will do as herd bulls and how thier calves will weigh at birth and at weaning.

 

[B&M Farms]

I was just looking at a sale book on a bull sale comming up and I was amazed that every bull in book had a BW under 75 LB and almost all of them were in the 60's and some as low as 59lb, it was a coincidence I had just been to a cattleman meeting and we had been talking about the the extreme move to lite birth weights . Can I get some opinions on these lite BW bulls and how you think they will do as herd bulls and how thier calves will weigh at birth and at weaning.

I'm no expert but 70lb calves are fine on heifers and money lost on cows.

 

[Nesikep]

Perhaps you missed this thread? viewtopic.php?f=19&t=90289 A bit of a debate about that as well.. I'm with B&M though, 70 is fine for heifers, but can't reach the teats on a 1500 lb cow.

 

[SPH]

I'd have concerns that either they aren't reporting their BW accurately or maybe they are just that selective, hard to know without knowing the breeder's rep but it's odd that every bull would be that light or they just manipulated the numbers. The ones 60 and lower are almost too extreme even if they were calved by heifers. Everyone has their opinions on birth weights, some think bigger calf = bigger weaning weights. Personally we like to see our heifers calve in the 70-80 lb range and preferably the mature cows have calves under 90lb. Just a lot less chance of complications in those ranges, we still have some that calve over 90 with no issues but especially with bulls it is a lot harder to market a bull with a BW over 90 than it is one that was around 80 which is why we still value using EPDs as one of the tools when selecting bulls because you never know if someone is just messing with weights in order to make a bull look more desirable. Plus buying from a reputable breeder that has the performance data to prove it always helps too.

 

[AllForage]

I think a live unassisted calf should be the priority and that is all that matters first for profitability in my opinion.

I think it would help to know what catalog you were looking at. Perhaps their customer base cannot tolerate having to pull calves where numbers are large and labor is not there. I just received the Sinclair catalog for some reason and their BW's range from 60 - 90. Just by glancing at their epds, a lot of the 60's compete with the high 80's for WW and YW. I know with using my highly linebred bulls on my commercial cows, I have seen seen some really big ones that are out of the ordinary. I think it all comes down to your cow base. Birth weights should match their size and capability. Just be prepared to keep that consistent. I for one am not into pushing the BW envelope for perceived unknown benefits.

 

[houstoncutter]

:tiphat:

I think a live unassisted calf should be the priority and that is all that matters first for profitability in my opinion.

I think it would help to know what catalog you were looking at. Perhaps their customer base cannot tolerate having to pull calves where numbers are large and labor is not there. I just received the Sinclair catalog for some reason and their BW's range from 60 - 90. Just by glancing at their epds, a lot of the 60's compete with the high 80's for WW and YW. I know with using my highly linebred bulls on my commercial cows, I have seen seen some really big ones that are out of the ordinary. I think it all comes down to your cow base. Birth weights should match their size and capability. Just be prepared to keep that consistent. I for one am not into pushing the BW envelope for perceived unknown benefits.[/quo



:tiphat: Spot on target with those comments

 

[polledbull]

for reference they were Lim flex bulls , I had rather not mention the breeder , about 35 bulls , not a single bull with a 80 lb BW , over 50% in the mid to upper 60,s. where im from that is to lite to suit me on cows, now first calf heifers , it is fine .

 

[highgrit]

Thanks for the help, you should not talk about some one if you won't say it to their face.

 

[polledbull]

I am not talking about anyone , or breeds , i am just pondering on breeding decisions and the trends toward these lite birth weights and the later perfermorance as in weaning weights perhaps. Is there a relation to the 2

 

[Chuckie]

polledbull, my BW's are higher than what is supposed to be normal for Angus. At the other farm, the cattle are mostly on grass, with a lower percentage of clover, so they don't stay as heavy as the ones on mostly clover. Their BW's are normally from 78 lbs to 90+. When I see that a calf weighs in the 80's, I have never thought anything about it. I want to be around when a cow or heifer gives birth. If there is going to be a problem at birth,and I miss it, then that is a year of the cows time, and mine too that went neglected because it was not my thing to do that day. Some things we cannot help. It's a business.

 

[Chuckie]

polledbull, I meant to tell you that I have never had a 59 lb even when they were twins!! :lol2:

 

[Till-Hill]

I got no use for under 60 lb calves 99% of the time. Last year breeding a beef heifer that was bottle fed and clubby bred I did tho. 59 lb heifer on her due date. More than likely I left some grown on the table and we will power her up a little more this year. Heifers so far 67 heifer calf and 76 bull twins.
74 heifer, 95 bull, 81 heifer, and 59 on the "special" one. Cows have been 86-110.

I have a hard time accepting the fact their are farms and ranch out there that need under 60 lb calves on their heifers. Must be a mangement deal I guess. I'll just keep mine right where they are at.

 

[Cross breeder #1]

Prefer 65 lbs on heifers. Our cows are only 1200 mature (trying to get to 1300) and heifers calve at about 800-900 lbs. Smaller than 65 lbs and they don't have the mass to stay warm in a very cold February. Bigger than 75 and it will be a pull for our small heifers. However as it has been proven before small cows are just as profitable so do not come off telling me how horrible they are. Also we prefer 80-90 on cows but have been a lot in 60-70 range lately because after we use our heifer bulls to the point that they are too big for heifers, we have kept them and used them on cows. It has lessened our mature size but we have also gotten some excellent and some bad replacement heifers. For example some of the daughters are only 1100 mature but milk like holsteins, stay fat as hogs, and wean calves as big as any of our cows. On the opposite end of the pendulum there are cows with little milk and little capacity resulting from the heifer bull made maternal deal.