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<blockquote data-quote="snake67" data-source="post: 1114305" data-attributes="member: 17764"><p>My disclaimer: All the following thoughts apply to full size cattle - no minis and smaller breeds and so on. We are Horned Herf folks who often cross to Angus so I base the following on those type of animal.</p><p></p><p>Everyone who reads my thoughts on birth weights knows I do not believe - normal presentation - that any animal being kept for breeding should not be able to handle 100 pounds - on her own on first go. And she should be able to go bigger after that with no help. If on a normal presentation and reasonable body shape, you are required to pull a calf that weighs in at 100 pounds that cow is either bred too young or not worth keeping</p><p></p><p>Mind you I hear a lot about those 1100 pound cows - I can honestly state that I do not own any. And I have actually walked all of ours over a scale - they average 1500 and a bit. I have a couple that are about 1700 and change and they are about 15 years old. The oldest is number 99 - born on grass in Saskatchewan almost 17 years ago - raised the biggest calf last year. The old ones are all still calving strong calves. </p><p></p><p>I believe that initial size also increases / decreases longevity and productivity.</p><p></p><p>And we see it all the time here how people are selling their "old cows" that are starting to under perform - and very often they are under ten years of age! No performance there at all - at least in my mind.</p><p></p><p> If they are toast under the age of ten they are crap animals to begin with unless they have had an event that causes them to be culled.</p><p></p><p>When I see people having 50 pound calves I wonder two things:</p><p></p><p>1. Have they truly been scaled? and,</p><p></p><p>2. Where would I bury that animal if it was born here in minus 20 or colder weather?</p><p></p><p>I truly believe the "low birth weight" fad will come home to hurt the industry some day. I believe I see it here - right now - when I hear about "gigantic" 90 pound calves being "hard pulled". That animal is not a breeder she is a hazard and should either have been bred later or sold down the road before the bull even found out she was in the field.</p><p></p><p>Now I understand that calf shape can have a lot to do with this. But when I go back to my prairie days and think on all those animals being born on grass and under the watchful eye of the coyote and the wolf - I wonder how the heck they ever got to the point where they now live in pampered houses and have people hovering over them in a worried state - waiting for that 50 pound calf that in my mind - would not be worth keeping for breeding. Too small. </p><p></p><p>And the progeny will get smaller over time. Losing - once again my opinion and no stats - that all important vigour that kept them going when they were on grass and on their own. And also losing that all important longevity - which many people do not seem to value today.</p><p></p><p>Wife and I are downsizing this year - suspect all the cows will be gone but for a few. Most are already spoke for so the selling was not difficult - but loading them will be - always been a crowd here - but time for them to find a new home.</p><p></p><p>Best to all</p><p></p><p>Bez</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="snake67, post: 1114305, member: 17764"] My disclaimer: All the following thoughts apply to full size cattle - no minis and smaller breeds and so on. We are Horned Herf folks who often cross to Angus so I base the following on those type of animal. Everyone who reads my thoughts on birth weights knows I do not believe - normal presentation - that any animal being kept for breeding should not be able to handle 100 pounds - on her own on first go. And she should be able to go bigger after that with no help. If on a normal presentation and reasonable body shape, you are required to pull a calf that weighs in at 100 pounds that cow is either bred too young or not worth keeping Mind you I hear a lot about those 1100 pound cows - I can honestly state that I do not own any. And I have actually walked all of ours over a scale - they average 1500 and a bit. I have a couple that are about 1700 and change and they are about 15 years old. The oldest is number 99 - born on grass in Saskatchewan almost 17 years ago - raised the biggest calf last year. The old ones are all still calving strong calves. I believe that initial size also increases / decreases longevity and productivity. And we see it all the time here how people are selling their "old cows" that are starting to under perform - and very often they are under ten years of age! No performance there at all - at least in my mind. If they are toast under the age of ten they are crap animals to begin with unless they have had an event that causes them to be culled. When I see people having 50 pound calves I wonder two things: 1. Have they truly been scaled? and, 2. Where would I bury that animal if it was born here in minus 20 or colder weather? I truly believe the "low birth weight" fad will come home to hurt the industry some day. I believe I see it here - right now - when I hear about "gigantic" 90 pound calves being "hard pulled". That animal is not a breeder she is a hazard and should either have been bred later or sold down the road before the bull even found out she was in the field. Now I understand that calf shape can have a lot to do with this. But when I go back to my prairie days and think on all those animals being born on grass and under the watchful eye of the coyote and the wolf - I wonder how the heck they ever got to the point where they now live in pampered houses and have people hovering over them in a worried state - waiting for that 50 pound calf that in my mind - would not be worth keeping for breeding. Too small. And the progeny will get smaller over time. Losing - once again my opinion and no stats - that all important vigour that kept them going when they were on grass and on their own. And also losing that all important longevity - which many people do not seem to value today. Wife and I are downsizing this year - suspect all the cows will be gone but for a few. Most are already spoke for so the selling was not difficult - but loading them will be - always been a crowd here - but time for them to find a new home. Best to all Bez [/QUOTE]
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