Birdsfoot Trefoil

[lukem86]

Anybody using birdsfoot trefoil in their pastures? Have you tried it in the past?.?.? Thinking about seeding some of it down this spring, but am looking for some opinions first...

thanks

 

[certherfbeef]

Anybody using birdsfoot trefoil in their pastures? Have you tried it in the past?.?.? Thinking about seeding some of it down this spring, but am looking for some opinions first...

thanks

It grows real well with bluegrass. But the trick is you have to almost overgraze the pasture in the summer and fall before you seed in the spring. Let the cattle tear up what is there. Run a disc over it with the discs set straight to cut the sod then seed the trefoil.

Makes good pasture with clover or bluegrass and seems to tolerate poorer soil here.

If you are going to make hay off it cut early. It gets stemmy fast.

 

[K-SHIRES]

Anybody using birdsfoot trefoil in their pastures? Have you tried it in the past?.?.? Thinking about seeding some of it down this spring, but am looking for some opinions first...

thanks

luke- Birdsfoot Trefoil is our major forage source. We have used it for pasture, haylage production, and dry hay. It is the most economical for us: Doesn't require heavy adjustment for lime as alfalfa does here(Northern WI)., Reseeds itself, and a good stand will maintain production several years beyond a clover or alfalfa stand.
B4 I go further, should ask, Pasture for horses or cattle? Horses will not eat green growing trefoil. They will eat it as dry baled hay-if they are hungry. Cattle, on the other hand, if not previously exposed to trefoil, may take 10 days to accept it. After that, they love it and thrive on it. Seems to be an acquired taste.
As far as seeding, do not plant unless soil is 50F for good results. We have broadcast seeded it on paddocks along with clovers, alfalfa and had good results. For a newly tilled field or future hayfield, we use Brillion seeder, go abou 14-16 lbs. per acre for a good stand. A truly good stand(6 Tons/acre forage hayfield) takes about 2 years to really get thick. It's a slow starter. But once it takes off, stands will persist 8, 10....and more years. It's tough stuff.
Just for info: The old EMPIRE variety is low to ground, thick and wiry, but will stand up to extreme grazing pressure. The newer varieties, VIKING, for example, stand more upright like alfalfa, have finer stems, and faster regrowth. Won't stay in ground as long though. Just depends what you're after.
Best of luck if you decide to give it a go.

 

[Hutch]

Anybody using birdsfoot trefoil in their pastures? Have you tried it in the past?.?.? Thinking about seeding some of it down this spring, but am looking for some opinions first...

thanks

luke- Birdsfoot Trefoil is our major forage source. We have used it for pasture, haylage production, and dry hay. It is the most economical for us: Doesn't require heavy adjustment for lime as alfalfa does here(Northern WI)., Reseeds itself, and a good stand will maintain production several years beyond a clover or alfalfa stand.
B4 I go further, should ask, Pasture for horses or cattle? Horses will not eat green growing trefoil. They will eat it as dry baled hay-if they are hungry. Cattle, on the other hand, if not previously exposed to trefoil, may take 10 days to accept it. After that, they love it and thrive on it. Seems to be an acquired taste.
As far as seeding, do not plant unless soil is 50F for good results. We have broadcast seeded it on paddocks along with clovers, alfalfa and had good results. For a newly tilled field or future hayfield, we use Brillion seeder, go abou 14-16 lbs. per acre for a good stand. A truly good stand(6 Tons/acre forage hayfield) takes about 2 years to really get thick. It's a slow starter. But once it takes off, stands will persist 8, 10....and more years. It's tough stuff.
Just for info: The old EMPIRE variety is low to ground, thick and wiry, but will stand up to extreme grazing pressure. The newer varieties, VIKING, for example, stand more upright like alfalfa, have finer stems, and faster regrowth. Won't stay in ground as long though. Just depends what you're after.
Best of luck if you decide to give it a go.

How soon after planting do you turn cattle out in pasture?

 

[K-SHIRES]

;-) HUTCH AND ALL ,
Question, How soon put cattle on after planting?
Scenario 1). Overseeding on existing sod(during warm(May-August) season. Here we would broadcast seed onto a paddock of 3 to 6 inch high forage, next day run cows on it 1-2 days, then remove cows and allow 3 1/2 to 4 weeks rest and rain before cattle would set foot on it again. The scarifying action of hooves on sod seems to work for us.
Scenario 2). A fully prepared seed bed which has been planted with Brillion. The first year, we would take a cutting of hay with machinery. Then, maybe late August or Sept., we would graze it using LIGHT stock(WEaned calves up to 600 lbs. only) No adult cattle first year on regrowth forage. Next year it would rejoin traditional rotational grazing paddocks, or retain use for hay production.
****One of the more successful methods of establishing killer stands of Trefoil is to plant it in August with a cover crop of winter wheat. Good strategy on low, wet ground hard to get on in the spring.
One other note on Trefoil - it is much more forgiving than Alfalfa or clover for hay production. If Clover is reaching it's peak for cutting, and then it rains for a week, you may end up with black sticks hardly worth cutting. The Trefoil would still be green and lush. You might lose a percentage point or two on Protien, but still very usable forage. Analagous for Alfalfa vs. Trefoil as well. But, admittedly, for high protien rocket fuel dairy feed, Trefoil will not rise to the level of Alfalfa harvested at it's peak value.
*****Hope I've answered some of your questions.

 

[lukem86]

K-

Thank you for you responses.... You mentioned seeding with clovers and alfalfa, have you seeded with any grasses before? I have only seen where guys have seeded it with bluegrass, would it work to put some brome or ryegrass in with it?


This pasture is for beef cattle, will be rotationally grazed, planning on moving cattle everyday... Do you think from a production/yield standpoint it will yield as much as say an alfalfa, ryegrass, brome mixture?

Good or bad idea.... Seeding this spring, letting the pasture get established (can be irrigated if we dont get rain), and grazing toward the end of the summer. Would this let the trefoil get established enough? I would have the option to keep the stocking rate down until next year... This pasture is on a new farm, I need to put up fences during the summer so the animals will not be on it right away...

Thanks

 

[K-SHIRES]

K-

Thank you for you responses.... You mentioned seeding with clovers and alfalfa, have you seeded with any grasses before? I have only seen where guys have seeded it with bluegrass, would it work to put some brome or ryegrass in with it?


This pasture is for beef cattle, will be rotationally grazed, planning on moving cattle everyday... Do you think from a production/yield standpoint it will yield as much as say an alfalfa, ryegrass, brome mixture?

Good or bad idea.... Seeding this spring, letting the pasture get established (can be irrigated if we dont get rain), and grazing toward the end of the summer. Would this let the trefoil get established enough? I would have the option to keep the stocking rate down until next year... This pasture is on a new farm, I need to put up fences during the summer so the animals will not be on it right away...

Thanks

Lukem - In our country we don't usually plant grass because too much of it is going to come along wanted or not. For your beef/rot. grazing, You can probably get away with grazing late August to fall IF: You remove cattle after heavy rain so they don't tear up seedlings, and you move them thru a FAST rotation(Just let them top it off) the first time thru.
For your application, would suggest a mixture of Empire, Viking Trefoils, white clover and red clover, and some Brome or timothy thrown in there. If it grows in your climate, a small amount of Puna Chicory in mix would be beneficial.
This way, the clovers would come fast, provide forage first year, 2nd year on trefoils would take off and continue to reseed itself. A veritable salad all during the green season, although if you don't graze till fall red clover would be toast by then.
Properly managed, a Trefoil/White clover grazing stand will Exceed Alfalfa/ grass stand for sheer production over the course of green season, IMO.
When you mention irrigation, does that mean you are on sand? We are north of Laurentian divide here, so PURE RED CLAY. On pure sand, Trefoil may not maintain a stand for as many years. Do more research if you are on sand, be my reccommendation. Good Luck partner.
P.S. Cattle rarely bloat on Trefoil so it is superior to Clover and Alfalfa in this regard.

 

[lukem86]

K-

I know the cattle dont bloat on trefoil but with nothing but clovers in there and little grass at first dont you still run the risk of the cattle bloating?

you also talked about only letting them top the trefoil off the first time through... would you run another rotation this late (late aug/sept) ? Or just the one time?

We are down by milwaukee, this particular farm is a lot of red clay...OM is fairly high though, has been notill corn and soy for 10 years, corn on corn the last 3...

 

[K-SHIRES]

K-

I know the cattle dont bloat on trefoil but with nothing but clovers in there and little grass at first dont you still run the risk of the cattle bloating?

you also talked about only letting them top the trefoil off the first time through... would you run another rotation this late (late aug/sept) ? Or just the one time?

We are down by milwaukee, this particular farm is a lot of red clay...OM is fairly high though, has been notill corn and soy for 10 years, corn on corn the last 3...

* More info always helps! on that crop ground would probably put grass in mix. Up here, 20-30% of new seeding vegatation OF GRASSES will be automatic unless you spray and KILL EVERYTHING first. Anytime you have clovers or alfalfa present, bloat risk is present. A smaller % of stand in these lessens risk. Stuffing cattle full of long, grassy dry hay before turning into rich, legumous pasture greatly reduces bloat risk.
* If ground is saturated and they will hoof or pug it up, would keep cattle off. If dry ground, would go to full harvesting by 4-hoof method.
* If you plant in spring and don't cut off as hay once, you will have a huge quantity of stockpiled forage on your hands. With Trefoil and white clover, this works. You can then STRIP-GRAZE it thru OCT., Nov., and Dec. up untill 5 inches of snow cover shuts you down.

A fundamental difference exists with Trefoil vs. Alfalfa or Clover(RED). The latter two follow a strict protocol of grow, bud, flower, mature out and go to seed. Must be harvested to produce new growth. Trefoil is doing 4 things all throughout the green season: It is growing, it is flowering, it is producing seed, and it is sending out new runners to establish new plants. This is why Trefoil will be green and palatible when other legumes have matured out and are done. This is why mention that Trefoil is more forgiving as hay crop, whereas Alfalfa is cut every 30 days to get good hay.
One year a farmer in area sold his cows, and had 450 acres of trefoil (first crop) standing Sept. 1st. I was done haying, had put machinery away. He approached me Labor Day and wanted me to make all his hay. I did thruout September between other jobs. The Trefoil was so thick and green I fed it to my dairy cows. They milked well and never had a higher butterfat test. Obviously, first crop Alfalfa or Clover baled in September would have been total crap.
Trefoil is the backbone of many farms in this area.

 

[lukem86]

k-

What seed companies carry empire and viking varieties that you know of? Thanks....

Olds is coming out with a variety called Vull, i believe its a semi-erect, for both hay and pasture..

 

[K-SHIRES]

k-

What seed companies carry empire and viking varieties that you know of? Thanks....

Olds is coming out with a variety called Vull, i believe its a semi-erect, for both hay and pasture..

*Sounds like Vull needs Viagra. Check out following:
http://www.welterseed.com Onslow, Ia
seedsolutions.com Madison, WI & Denver, Co
Deer Creek Seed Ashland, WI TELE (715)-278-3200
or (715)-682-3200

 

[lukem86]

K-

I have come up with a mix that I think will work, curious what you think...

Trefoil:
Empire- 3lb/a
Bull- 5lb/a (supposed to be a rapid establisher...)

Colt White Clover - 2lb/a

Express Timothy - 3lb/a (this is a later maturing variety of Timothy)

Perennial Ryegrass - 5lb/a

I was also curious what methods you used for seeding... I had talked to a couple of people that thought the best method for seeding the trefoil would be to put it in with a drill. (I have a Great Plains with the small seed attachment) Ive never drilled clover before but would think it would go through the drill also...

But if you drilled the trefoil what would you do with the rest of the mix? Broadcast it? Would you do this before or after you drilled the trefoil?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[K-SHIRES]

luke - looks like a good plan for what you want to do. The trefoil, clover, timothy could all be mixed 2-gether and planted via small seed box on your drill. Other guys up this way had poor luck with ryegrass, so I never tryed it hence not familiar with size of those seeds. if they are more like oats, just an idea maybe skiiny down planting ratio on grain box and run them thru there while you plant rest of it? Or, would it work to have oats and ryegrass blended together and plant them with grain box side of drill? If you can save a trip over field, less soil compaction would be good. If this won't work , I would broadcast first, let drill incorporate ryegrass seed on final pass?
Our best results for spring planting came by drilling 2 bu. forage oats with grain drill, then putting in permanent legumes/timothy with Brillion seeder on top of it. The forage oats were effective weed control and cover crop, provided excellent feed.
We have direct seeded with Brillion and gotten good stands, but had weeds first year which we clipped with a haybine. The legumes(Trefoil&Clover) came on later in summer(AUG>-SEPT.) and got thick. You, however, have a month longer growing season and better soils than we do here. Hope these ideas help.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Any seeding tips on alfalfa or red clover mixed with Birdsfoot?

I have been think about 3# each for a total of 6# legume along with 8# of grass seed.

 

[Stocker Steve]

;-) HUTCH AND ALL ,
****One of the more successful methods of establishing killer stands of Trefoil is to plant it in August with a cover crop of winter wheat. Good strategy on low, wet ground hard to get on in the spring.

Sounds good:
Is the winter wheat for spring feed or fall protection?
What is your typical seeding rate?
Do you inter seed any grass in the following spring year?

 

[lukem86]

Steve,

I have no experience with seeding BFT in the fall..... I did plant the mix that I posted above last spring... and it came up great.... extremely dense. I made hay in early August, and left the rest standing and grazed most of it in late december and january through the snow.

This is a 10 acre pasture. I have been running my herd on this all year.. Roughly 23, 1000 pound AU's and 17 Mar-Apr calves. I move the herd everyday, 58 days on this 10 acres before I pulled off and went to some It. Rye b/c it was so dry. On It. Rye for 19 days. Back to BFT pasture and just finished a 15 day rotation on it. Could probably have gone back and started again, but some new seeding was ready for grazing finally.

This mix never gets real tall... I guess i havent really given it a chance, but it is very very dense.

Ill see if i can find a picture of the pasture a post it here....

 

[lukem86]

1st two pictures are just before christmas... stuff was laying down pretty good... we had over a foot of snow on it early in dec...
[/img]http://cattletoday.com/photos/uploads/1403/100_1368.JPG

http://cattletoday.com/photos/uploads/1403/100_1367.JPG

http://cattletoday.com/photos/uploads/1403/100_15441.JPG

http://cattletoday.com/photos/uploads/1403/100_1795.JPG

 

[lukem86]

Sorry...