Bermuda Pasture Questions

[Z&J Cattle]

Sorry in advance for the long post, but here it goes.

I recently read an article in Mid-South Farmer about a gentleman in Tennessee that raises dairy heifers. The article was titled "Banking on Bermuda". Anyway, he has 100 acres of bermuda pasture that is divided into 14 pastures, seven acres each. He grazes the heifers (150 head, WOW!) on these seven acre pastures for three days at a time and then rotates to the next pasture. This gives each pasture 42 days of rest (or regrowth) between grazing. He fertilizes with Nitrogen also between grazing. This is very similar to what I have been wanting to do except on a much smaller scale and with beef cows. I recently bought 16 acres. It is currently row crop (soybeans) and we are going to fence it this fall and sew bermuda next spring. We have already taken soil samples and had them to to recommendations for bermuda, wheat, and fescue. All three called for the same supplement which is just a bit of Nitrogen. We also checked the soil maps and this soil shows to be category 1 soil, which should be EXCELLENT for bermuda production. We plan to divide our 16 acres into 4 patures of 4 acres each. I have done some math and based on the numbers in the article, all things being equal, to do a rotational grazing on my property, allowing 42 days of rest for each pasture between grazing, each pasture should be able to support 18 head for two weeks before moving to the next pasture. I understand that my situation will be somewhat different from the gentleman in the article, but this should be close. We plan to irrigate and are trying to decide the best and/or most cost effective way to do this. So far, the best idea that we have came up with is to wash our well down right in the center of the property and then basically go diagonally across the farm in the shape of an "X" with underground pipe, with taps to connect into every so often, then using commercial type sprinkler heads connected to rubber hose that we can move around as needed and basically just water one 4 acre pasture at a time in between grazings. I apologize again for the long post, but I was hoping to get some thoughts from some of you experts on this and I'm sure some of you will have much better suggestions than what we have came up with. Also, we are trying to figure out just exactly how we are going to need to go about seeding our bermuda with the seed being so small/light. We don't have access to a drill. If we were to go ahead and mix the seed with the nitrogen and fertilize/seed all at the same time using the fertilize as a carrier for the seed, would that work with a broadcast buggy? And one last thing, the man in the article no-tills wheat into his bermuda every fall. As I said, I don't have access to a drill, certainly not a no-till. Is there any other way to sew wheat on top of bermuda and get any kind of a stand at all? Thanks in advance for any advice/input that you guys(and gals) might have.

Zach

 

[Jake]

I am not experienced with Bermuda but I would say that you have an excellent plan.

 

[mbdear]

You may want to do some more research on rotational grazing. Your bermuda during the growing season would be ready to regraze much quicker than 42 days quoted (read 28 days or less). In addition, you would be much better off having enough pastures to rotate every 3 or 4 or so days (as opposed to grazing a longer time). You want to avoid having the cattle graze the regrowth too soon by leaving them on the pasture longer than 3 or 4 days. You would probably be more satisfied by having a minimum of 8 pastures (this would give you a rest period of 21 days using a 3 day graze period or a rest period of 28 days using a 4 day graze period)

Good luck on your project. Your cattle will look forward to the moves and usually get with the program easily.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

You may want to do some more research on rotational grazing. Your bermuda during the growing season would be ready to regraze much quicker than 42 days quoted (read 28 days or less). In addition, you would be much better off having enough pastures to rotate every 3 or 4 or so days (as opposed to grazing a longer time). You want to avoid having the cattle graze the regrowth too soon by leaving them on the pasture longer than 3 or 4 days. You would probably be more satisfied by having a minimum of 8 pastures (this would give you a rest period of 21 days using a 3 day graze period or a rest period of 28 days using a 4 day graze period)

Good luck on your project. Your cattle will look forward to the moves and usually get with the program easily.

"Managed intensive grazing" in a nutshell. :cboy: ;-)

 

[denoginnizer]

One of our local feed/seed stores has a drill . They rent it out for about 8.00 per acre or about 160 per day , which ever number yields them the most money. Usaully a farmer with a grain drill that will do a little extra work on the side. May have to pay him a little more than normal to make it worth his while on a small acerage but should still be reasonable.

 

[denoginnizer]

One other thing, I was looking at some irragated row crop land the otherday. They had this huge disposable hose they were running through the fields. The hose came on reels and they just un-reeled it and poked holes in it every so often. Worked great for them might work for you. Good luck.

 

[gabby]

This gives each pasture 42 days of rest (or regrowth) between grazing.

***Way too long for regrowth, unless it's a drought***

He fertilizes with Nitrogen also between grazing.

***This will get expensive! I don't fertilize my pastures.***

I recently bought 16 acres. It is currently row crop (soybeans) and we are going to fence it this fall and sew bermuda next spring. the soil maps and this soil shows to be category 1 soil, which should be EXCELLENT for bermuda production. We plan to divide our 16 acres into 4 patures of 4 acres each. I have done some math and based on the numbers in the article, all things being equal, to do a rotational grazing on my property, allowing 42 days of rest for each pasture between grazing, each pasture should be able to support 18 head for two weeks before moving to the next pasture. I understand that my situation will be somewhat different from the gentleman in the article, but this should be close. We plan to irrigate and are trying to decide the best and/or most cost effective way to do this. So far, the best idea that we have came up with is to wash our well down right in the center of the property and then basically go diagonally across the farm in the shape of an "X" with underground pipe, with taps to connect into every so often, then using commercial type sprinkler heads connected to rubber hose that we can move around as needed and basically just water one 4 acre pasture at a time in between grazings.

***This method of watering will work you to death and take forever to cover 4 acres. If you're going to water, use some sort of traveling hose reel sprinkler so you can go to sleep at night.***

Also, we are trying to figure out just exactly how we are going to need to go about seeding our bermuda with the seed being so small/light. We don't have access to a drill. If we were to go ahead and mix the seed with the nitrogen and fertilize/seed all at the same time using the fertilize as a carrier for the seed, would that work with a broadcast buggy?

***Yes***

And one last thing, the man in the article no-tills wheat into his bermuda every fall. As I said, I don't have access to a drill, certainly not a no-till. Is there any other way to sew wheat on top of bermuda and get any kind of a stand at all?

***Give it a rest in the wintertime. My experience is the pasture grass prevents good fall growth of the winter grazing until it gets cold and then the grain won't grow much because it's too cold. I admire your big ideas but I think you will have too much overhead to make a profit if you irrigate, fertilize several times, etc.
gabby***

Zach

 

[Z&J Cattle]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Gabby, you seem to be very knowledgable on this subject. You say that you think I will have too much overhead with a program like this to make a profit. What would your suggestions for me be given the amount of land/etc.. that I have. I am all ears, because I am new to all this and would love to get all the advice/input that folks are willing to give. Thanks again,

Zach

P.S. I wasn't totally clear on the part where you were talking about not seeding in the winter to give it a rest. Do you mean just supplement with more hay/grain as opposed to trying to sew more forage in the winter months?

 

[johndeerefarmer]

Not fertilizing is NOT a good idea. You will eventually "mine" the soil of it's nutrients. Then the weeds will start to grow and the bermuda will start to thin. Once you see what it costs to sprig coastal you will not want to be doing it again.

Hybrid bermudas were developed to be fertilized. If you are not going to fertilize them you are just as well to use common bermuda. As was correctly stated in one of the previous posts, coastal is at it's optimum protien level at about 4 weeks. If you let it grow taller than that, protien will drop. At about 8 weeks it may be as low as 10%.

You have to take everything that you read on forums with a grain of salt. Some info is correct and some is BS. Make sure that you are talking to people that you can trust, county agents, Soil Conservation folks, etc .

 

[gabby]

Not fertilizing is NOT a good idea. You will eventually "mine" the soil of it's nutrients. Then the weeds will start to grow and the bermuda will start to thin. Once you see what it costs to sprig coastal you will not want to be doing it again.

Hybrid bermudas were developed to be fertilized. If you are not going to fertilize them you are just as well to use common bermuda. As was correctly stated in one of the previous posts, coastal is at it's optimum protien level at about 4 weeks. If you let it grow taller than that, protien will drop. At about 8 weeks it may be as low as 10%.

You have to take everything that you read on forums with a grain of salt. Some info is correct and some is BS. Make sure that you are talking to people that you can trust, county agents, Soil Conservation folks, etc .

Howdy JDF,
You're welcome to come inspect my pastures any time you want to. My cows are fat and they are belly deep in grass. My family has been tending this land for 8 generations and I'm going to pass it on even better than I got it. I am offended by your remarks.
gabby

 

[gabby]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Gabby, you seem to be very knowledgable on this subject. You say that you think I will have too much overhead with a program like this to make a profit. What would your suggestions for me be given the amount of land/etc.. that I have. I am all ears, because I am new to all this and would love to get all the advice/input that folks are willing to give. Thanks again,

Zach

P.S. I wasn't totally clear on the part where you were talking about not seeding in the winter to give it a rest. Do you mean just supplement with more hay/grain as opposed to trying to sew more forage in the winter months?

Hey Zack,
Yes I was saying give your grass land a rest in the winter. It will do better in the fall and it will grow out sooner in the spring without the competition from the winter grazing. I don't use any winter grazing, just hay and protein blocks. I don't feed any grain. I just visit with them in my golf cart and toss out a few cubes nearly every day to make sure they're glad to see me.

I think your plan is basically a good one, just a little too intense.
gabby

 

[Z&J Cattle]

Thanks again Gabby. Which brings me to a couple more questions. The protein blocks that you are talking about, what kind are they and how large are they. I guess my basically I am asking how often/how many do you typically feed in the winter to supplement with the hay? Also, do you know what some of the pros and cons are of different varieties of bermuda? Which variety do you think that I should use in my area (Northeast Arkansas)for best results? Thanks again,

Zach

 

[johndeerefarmer]

Sorry if you got offended Gabby but your advice on not fertilizing hybrid bermuda is WRONG.

You may be a 8th generation rancher but not with coastal. It has only been around since the 30's.
If you grow native pastures then you don't need to fertilize it or not as much because it doesn't use fertilizer as efficiently as hybrid bermudas.

The posters original question was about rotating cattle thru paddocks of hybrid bermuda and he asked about fertilizing it. Your answer was " it costs too much". So what it comes down to it that you are too cheap to fertilize.

I fertilize my coastal bermuda with 350 lbs acre of 23-7-14. When I cut my hay at around 5.5 weeks the protein content is typically 13-14%. Yes the fertilizer is expensive but I don't have to buy range cubes in the winter and most of the fertilizer nutrients are returned to my pastures as the cows eat the hay in the winter. So basically, I am fertilizing my hay meadows and pastures with the same fert. application

 

[gabby]

Thanks again Gabby. Which brings me to a couple more questions. The protein blocks that you are talking about, what kind are they and how large are they. I guess my basically I am asking how often/how many do you typically feed in the winter to supplement with the hay? Also, do you know what some of the pros and cons are of different varieties of bermuda? Which variety do you think that I should use in my area (Northeast Arkansas)for best results? Thanks again,

Zach

Hey Zach,
The protein blocks are really cylindrical molasses blocks weighing 500 pounds. They're a good winter supplement for cows on hay. I keep one available all the time in the winter, as well as all the hay they will eat and free choice minerals.
0
I'm not a bermuda expert so you should rely on local advice on that. In fact, my pastures are bahia grass, not bermuda. Lots of people frown on bahia but it does a heck of a good job for me. I think it's hard to beat. It's easy to establish, greens up early in the spring, and the seed doesn't cost a fortune.
gabby

 

[gabby]

Sorry if you got offended Gabby but your advice on not fertilizing hybrid bermuda is WRONG.

You may be a 8th generation rancher but not with coastal. It has only been around since the 30's.
If you grow native pastures then you don't need to fertilize it or not as much because it doesn't use fertilizer as efficiently as hybrid bermudas.

The posters original question was about rotating cattle thru paddocks of hybrid bermuda and he asked about fertilizing it. Your answer was " it costs too much". So what it comes down to it that you are too cheap to fertilize.

I fertilize my coastal bermuda with 350 lbs acre of 23-7-14. When I cut my hay at around 5.5 weeks the protein content is typically 13-14%. Yes the fertilizer is expensive but I don't have to buy range cubes in the winter and most of the fertilizer nutrients are returned to my pastures as the cows eat the hay in the winter. So basically, I am fertilizing my hay meadows and pastures with the same fert. application

JDF,
I don't know how good a cattleman you are, but you're damn good at misconstruing things and jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Where did I say not to fertilize hybrid bermuda? I didn't. I just stated that I don't fertilize MY pastures. The main reason for this is my pastures are bahia grass and they do quite well without fertilizer. I lime them when needed.

Nowhere did I say anything about not fertilizing for hay. My coastal fields have been growing back ready for the next cutting in 28 days.

As regards range cubes, I guess I am cheap. It only takes a half a bag at a time to keep them coming to me and eating out of my hand.

Be cool,
gabby

p.s. Coastal bermuda was introduced in the early 50's right here in good old Georgia.

 

[BC]

What variety of bermuda are you going to plant? Coastal, Tifton 85, Jiggs, Russell all have to be vegetatively sprigged.

I would make more paddocks seperated by a single hot wire. This will allow you to let fence down for fertilizing and sod seeding. This will allow you to come back and graze more often when the grass is the highest quality. There are several dairymen that use MIG in my area. They stock at at a grown cow per 3/4 acre. They rotate the milking herd to fresh grass daily. Fertilize lightly every 24 to 28 days. With milk you get a paycheck every 2 weeks. They overseed by lightly disking their bermuda or cutting for hay and use an old grain drill to put their winter grazing in.

Another source on rotational grazing would be the Nobles Foundation. http://www.noble.org/Storefront/AgStore ... F-FO-93-01 . This booklet can be ordered and has some good information. They use stocker steers or heifers and use a small herd of cows and calves to clean up behind the calves. Bermuda is their base grass and they tread in ryegrass by putting it out with a cone seeder on a tractor and letting the cattle tromp the seed into the ground. I do not think this will work for rye, wheat or oats.

 

[johndeerefarmer]

Sorry if you got offended Gabby but your advice on not fertilizing hybrid bermuda is WRONG.

You may be a 8th generation rancher but not with coastal. It has only been around since the 30's.
If you grow native pastures then you don't need to fertilize it or not as much because it doesn't use fertilizer as efficiently as hybrid bermudas.

The posters original question was about rotating cattle thru paddocks of hybrid bermuda and he asked about fertilizing it. Your answer was " it costs too much". So what it comes down to it that you are too cheap to fertilize.

I fertilize my coastal bermuda with 350 lbs acre of 23-7-14. When I cut my hay at around 5.5 weeks the protein content is typically 13-14%. Yes the fertilizer is expensive but I don't have to buy range cubes in the winter and most of the fertilizer nutrients are returned to my pastures as the cows eat the hay in the winter. So basically, I am fertilizing my hay meadows and pastures with the same fert. application

JDF,
I don't know how good a cattleman you are, but you're damn good at misconstruing things and jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Where did I say not to fertilize hybrid bermuda? I didn't. I just stated that I don't fertilize MY pastures. The main reason for this is my pastures are bahia grass and they do quite well without fertilizer. I lime them when needed.

Nowhere did I say anything about not fertilizing for hay. My coastal fields have been growing back ready for the next cutting in 28 days.

As regards range cubes, I guess I am cheap. It only takes a half a bag at a time to keep them coming to me and eating out of my hand.

Be cool,
gabby

p.s. Coastal bermuda was introduced in the early 50's right here in good old Georgia.

The point is, the poster specifically asked about coastal bermuda and fertilization. You took their questions and inserted your replys. Your comment was "I don't fertilize it's too expensive". You did not clarify that you had bahia, nor that coastal in fact does require fertilizer.

And my point about fertilizing my hay meadows is that without fertilizer NEITHER your fields or hay meadows will have a very high protien level.

Peace and be cool...............

 

[jcissell]

When I read your post the first question that comes to mind is are you wanting to make ANY money? Or do you not care about making money and have plenty of money to blow? I'm from Northeast Arkansas and there (in most years) isn't a need to irrigate pasture land. Besides irrigation costs a fortune. Is your pump electric or diesel? Either way it will still cost you a good bit.

denoginnizer
The stuff you were talking about is poly-pipe.

Josh

 

[Z&J Cattle]

Yeah Josh, the problem that I am having is that I just have so much money that I am looking for a place to unload some of it. I haven't decided whether to irrigate my pasture or just have a dump truck pile a load of my money out in the middle of the pasture and invite some friends over for a bonfire. What do ya'll think?

Zach

 

[Beefy]

the best way to unload some extra money is to get a horse and/or boat.