New to the AI world. Looking to have a few cows AI'd, not the best with epd'S etc. But looking at what I feel I understand the Angus bull BaldRidge Titan and JRAS Titan look to be outstanding. Am I missing something? They don't seem to be as popular as I would expect. I am mostly looking at CE, BW, MILK, YW, AND WW. my end goal is replacement heifers. So in my mind I'm interested in the milk, growth, and live calves
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BaldRidge Titan
- Thread starter fnfarms1
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Son of Butch
Well-known member
Which AI stud does your AI tech rep for or have available?fnfarms1":37yxwi9c said:New to AI... Looking to have a few cows AI'd... the Angus bull BaldRidge Titan and JRAS Titan look to be outstanding.
Am I missing something? ... my end goal is replacement heifers.
So in my mind I'm interested in the milk, growth, and live calves
Baldridge Titan is a $30 young sire with low accuracy numbers...
Off the top of my head for $30 I'd take a proven bull such as Connealy Black Granite over him.
Titan ced 16 .32 acc .35 sc 18 doc 7.7 hp 13 cem 30 milk EN$ - 26 $W 79
B. G. ced 12 .86 acc 1.21 sc 27 doc 14.8 hp 14 cem 30 milk EN$ - 19 $W 77
in my mind for replacements... live calves, (reproductive traits sc, hp, cem) $EN $W Milk and docilty
ced is more of a concern when breeding heifers than cows
growth traits more important for feeders and fats... for replacement females focus more on maternal traits
Son of Butch. Epd'S are not my expertise to say the least. My mind was on trying to promote growth in calves to come from potential replacements, if that makes sense. However I agree maternal trait's will be my focus. I just don't underst and what alot of those traits even are or values to shoot for.
Also something I hadn't considered but saw being discussed in an other topic, was milk vs fleshing ability so that cows aren't milking so much that breed back is an issue due to body condition.
Also something I hadn't considered but saw being discussed in an other topic, was milk vs fleshing ability so that cows aren't milking so much that breed back is an issue due to body condition.
wildcat2154
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Agree hoover dam makes great females with great udders and good disposition. He is also proven
Commercialfarmer
Well-known member
fnfarms1":lr2mvwmk said:New to the AI world. Looking to have a few cows AI'd, not the best with epd'S etc. But looking at what I feel I understand the Angus bull BaldRidge Titan and JRAS Titan look to be outstanding. Am I missing something? They don't seem to be as popular as I would expect. I am mostly looking at CE, BW, MILK, YW, AND WW. my end goal is replacement heifers. So in my mind I'm interested in the milk, growth, and live calves
Lot depends on how you run your cattle.. How do you winter them? Do you supplement them along and kinda baby them, or do they pretty much have to rough it?
For instance, we have two different systems. One set have the life of Rilley and are rotated out on winter wheat/rye and bottom ground grass. Makes sense to use genetics that get more out of the groceries and pounds in their calves.
Other set have to work to get through the winter. They get hay, but primarily have to make due on stockpiled grass- and it's protein content is wanting for the most part.
Just what is available to utilize in some rented ground.
The high growth, larger framed and negative EN cattle are't going to thrive possibly even survive and rebreading will take a pounding.
Have 3 little bulls out of this sire that we're excited to see what they will do on heifers for this system.
http://absbs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.a ... o=29AN1827.
Utilized Hoover Dam last year for the other. Little bigger mature frame size and EN closure to neutral, increased milk production.
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... =237AN2102
Also, for replacements, I want a higher sc (scrotal measurement). Relates to heifer fertility. Because of that, i think you can find cattle you will like better than the two listed.
Moderation is likely better than extremes.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Then I'd give serious consideration to either of these 2 for replacement femalesfnfarms1":2w27odzu said:Commercial farmer, my cows are the later of your herds. I expect them to winter on dead bermuda, hay, and the occasional feed or protein tub during bad weather ie. Ice and snow. What I call 'Range Cattle'.
KCF Bennett ABSOLUTE
ced 11 acc .90 sc 1.18 hp 13.9 doc 16 cem 8 milk 20 $EN 16 $W 81
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... o=29AN1783
or
B3R Pioneer Wave
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... o=29AN1871
Son, just trying to pick your brain here. Why would you think these 2 bulls will produce great replacements? There at or below for everything maternal exept HP, Absolute is a little higher for DOC. And looks like they will shorten and lighten up your cows(if they need moderating they could work for that).
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Efficiency... $EN top 10% with top 1% $W reduces cow input costs while being 2nd to none in calf crop $
Absolute is a well proven son of the strong maternal sire Final Answer giving me confidence in the udders.
ced 11 top 20%
sc 1.18 top 25%
hp 13.9 top 33%
$EN 16 top 10%
What really stands out is he moderates milk 20 and reduces mature cow size -19 mw yet the calves really perform
cw 65 top 2%
$W 81 top 1%
radg .28 top 10%
In addition his $W 81 divided by ww 62 = 130% ratio
telling me his calves have an outstanding survival rate to weaning (calf vigor)
Pioneer Wave a Final Answer grandson follows the same efficient pattern although not as strongly and lower accuracy
he's a Pioneer son and the Pioneer offspring I've seen have a lot of eye appeal, well balanced and of moderate size
Guess you could say I'm a fan of having the shorter wide Final Answer type cows in the cow herd for their efficiency.
Absolute is a well proven son of the strong maternal sire Final Answer giving me confidence in the udders.
ced 11 top 20%
sc 1.18 top 25%
hp 13.9 top 33%
$EN 16 top 10%
What really stands out is he moderates milk 20 and reduces mature cow size -19 mw yet the calves really perform
cw 65 top 2%
$W 81 top 1%
radg .28 top 10%
In addition his $W 81 divided by ww 62 = 130% ratio
telling me his calves have an outstanding survival rate to weaning (calf vigor)
Pioneer Wave a Final Answer grandson follows the same efficient pattern although not as strongly and lower accuracy
he's a Pioneer son and the Pioneer offspring I've seen have a lot of eye appeal, well balanced and of moderate size
Guess you could say I'm a fan of having the shorter wide Final Answer type cows in the cow herd for their efficiency.
Son of Butch
Well-known member
maternal and growth traits are usually/often antagonistic...
radg relates to feed efficiency and growth
carcass weight top 2% relates to rapid early growth... shorter than average indicates wide, heavy, easy fleshing
mature weight well below average [minus] cow size under control
apparently they grow fast for 16 - 24 months and stop, usually yh cw and mw all go hand in hand
it seems the genes for a smaller than average cow bringing in a heavier than average calf year after year are all there.
$EN is very important for herd profit as is $W
large cows look great in the front pasture, but they are big eaters especially when producing milk and are more prone
to injury than smaller well balanced cows. (Like big people more often clumsy and more joint problems)
IMO angus cow frame size is getting too large and most angus cows need moderation
I don't know if others think this way, but to me ww to $W ratio is very important
IF indivual calf ww average is above average but $W is below average, then the numbers are telling me way too many
are dying before weaning... they must be lacking calf vigor
radg relates to feed efficiency and growth
carcass weight top 2% relates to rapid early growth... shorter than average indicates wide, heavy, easy fleshing
mature weight well below average [minus] cow size under control
apparently they grow fast for 16 - 24 months and stop, usually yh cw and mw all go hand in hand
it seems the genes for a smaller than average cow bringing in a heavier than average calf year after year are all there.
$EN is very important for herd profit as is $W
large cows look great in the front pasture, but they are big eaters especially when producing milk and are more prone
to injury than smaller well balanced cows. (Like big people more often clumsy and more joint problems)
IMO angus cow frame size is getting too large and most angus cows need moderation
I don't know if others think this way, but to me ww to $W ratio is very important
IF indivual calf ww average is above average but $W is below average, then the numbers are telling me way too many
are dying before weaning... they must be lacking calf vigor
Lucky_P
Well-known member
I was very interested in B.Waylon a couple of years back, but was warned off of him... and other Protege sons... due to foot/leg issues, allegedly coming down from 6807. Another generation or two out...is that still a problem? I don't know.
Me and ol' SoBbutch are on the same page.
We're not using much in the way of Angus genetics these days, but I try to keep a cane in the tank for use now and again so I can make some high% AN females to breed halfblood Simmental, Shorthorn, Braunvieh, etc., out of.
Absolute and Pioneer Wave are the two Angus sires I'd been vacillating between. Both bring a lot of what I'm looking for from an Angus sire to the table.
I have some Gardens Wave daughters in the herd, and they are perhaps my favorite high% Angus cows; wish I'd bought more Wave semen before he went off the market. Have been using a Wave son, Gardens Next Wave HE17 for the last couple of breeding seasons... and the calves look good - both steers and heifers. Kinda makes me think that Pioneer Wave will get the nod as the next Angus sire in the tank; PW brings more marbling and ribeye to the table than Absolute, but $EN is lower than Absolute - but still 'positive'. Have not brought in any Final Answer influence before, but I've never heard anything negative about FA that would make me hesitate to use him or a bull/cow that he's behind.
Discussions I've seen on Angus boards indicate that Absolute really knocks frame off... PW has a 4.7 mature frame score, but MH epd is not as negative(-0.3 vs -0.5) as Absolute who's a 5.5 mfs ... so, I dunno. Walking Angus sire we kept around here for 8-9 years increased frame score over what the old SimAngus base herd had, so I can use a bull with frame score less than 5 and not get hurt too bad, most of the time.
Me and ol' SoBbutch are on the same page.
We're not using much in the way of Angus genetics these days, but I try to keep a cane in the tank for use now and again so I can make some high% AN females to breed halfblood Simmental, Shorthorn, Braunvieh, etc., out of.
Absolute and Pioneer Wave are the two Angus sires I'd been vacillating between. Both bring a lot of what I'm looking for from an Angus sire to the table.
I have some Gardens Wave daughters in the herd, and they are perhaps my favorite high% Angus cows; wish I'd bought more Wave semen before he went off the market. Have been using a Wave son, Gardens Next Wave HE17 for the last couple of breeding seasons... and the calves look good - both steers and heifers. Kinda makes me think that Pioneer Wave will get the nod as the next Angus sire in the tank; PW brings more marbling and ribeye to the table than Absolute, but $EN is lower than Absolute - but still 'positive'. Have not brought in any Final Answer influence before, but I've never heard anything negative about FA that would make me hesitate to use him or a bull/cow that he's behind.
Discussions I've seen on Angus boards indicate that Absolute really knocks frame off... PW has a 4.7 mature frame score, but MH epd is not as negative(-0.3 vs -0.5) as Absolute who's a 5.5 mfs ... so, I dunno. Walking Angus sire we kept around here for 8-9 years increased frame score over what the old SimAngus base herd had, so I can use a bull with frame score less than 5 and not get hurt too bad, most of the time.
Ok so after a couple topics on here and got to talk with a good friend of my Dad's. I am holding off on AI'ing. He said im on the right track, but might be few years ahead of myself. Wantto have few show heifers from the herd but since I'm still 5yrs out, need to focus on my %breed. Meaning get my percentage of whatever breed (my case being angus) up higer overy next 3 or 4yrs using good maternal gentics through natural service. Then AI. Said for our little county shows, I may even end up with something competitive from that.not looking to win the Royal, just wanting to teach the kids while improving the herd. Maybe my kids will want something to do with the herd some day. Maybe not
Got a local guy with some direct sons of Chisum, I'm considering. Haven't found any HooverDam genetics yet close to here or in my price range
Got a local guy with some direct sons of Chisum, I'm considering. Haven't found any HooverDam genetics yet close to here or in my price range
Son of Butch
Well-known member
Never too soon to start A.I. unless you mean facilities for catching in heat and for your technician to do thefnfarms1":3n7boyju said:I am holding off on AI'ing. He said I'm on the right track, but might be few years ahead of myself.
actual insemination. Otherwise A.I. is the way to go IF you have the time, facilities and a good A.I. technician available.
Ok not related to BaldRidge titan. But a local guy has a son of EXAR Classen. All angus bull. I went and looked and he is a nice bull. In the pasture was also a 50% angus 50%simmental among others. I had planned to go straight angus, but can't get that sim-angus outa my head. The simAngus is sired by High Voltage, Dam is SAV Limited Edition daughter. Going off numbers the sim angus sounds better. Not saying the Angus is anything bad. But thoughts on these 2?
Son of Butch
Well-known member
What are you going to breed?
IF you wanted straight angus I assume you had a plan and a crossbred bull wouldn't fit the plan.
Crossbred bulls will look better than pure bulls, but that doesn't mean the calves will, because the crossbred bull has used up the biggest part of the heterosis for himself and he won't pass on as much hybird vigor, unless of course you're using him on mostly angus cows.
IF you wanted straight angus I assume you had a plan and a crossbred bull wouldn't fit the plan.
Crossbred bulls will look better than pure bulls, but that doesn't mean the calves will, because the crossbred bull has used up the biggest part of the heterosis for himself and he won't pass on as much hybird vigor, unless of course you're using him on mostly angus cows.
