Backgrounding COG ?

[Stocker Steve]

Everyone is looking at retained ownership recently - - with many industry experts suggesting back grounding calves to put more pounds on each and thus offset lower calf prices per pound. The interesting part is the wide range of COG values. Seems like some of the lowest OG values are from grazing warm season crops, and the highest COG values are from dry lotting with low ADG feeds. What has worked the best for you?

 

[JMJ Farms]

I've never done any backgrounding other than on a few of my own calves. Hard to beat grazing IMO. But we are in the middle of a drought so there will be no winter grazing here this year. Gonna make it tough all the way around. I bought some 13%CP/4% fat bulk pellets for $200/ton and some WCS for $190/ton so that's what I'm gonna use this year.

 

[Kingfisher]

Coolest deal I've seen is irrigated place in south texas grazing calves on rotated grass. Really good grass. 4lbs a day.

 

[Aaron]

In the cold and white part of the continent, nothing cheaper than leaving the calf on the cow with decent hay and water for the winter. That being said, all cows are not created equal and it may be too much for some to handle.

 

[JMJ Farms]

In the cold and white part of the continent, nothing cheaper than leaving the calf on the cow with decent hay and water for the winter. That being said, all cows are not created equal and it may be too much for some to handle.

I agree. But you've got to wean them to background them.

 

[js1234]

Depends on what you're trying to do with the next step.
As an example, we limit feed some calves from about February to May and then turn them out on grass. When you are looking at the feed bills roll in and looking at the way the calves are gaining, limit feeding doesn't look like very much fun. When the cattle go out on grass and you see the upside of all that letting them grow frame and capacity, limit feeding looks a lot better.

 

[Stocker Steve]

In the cold and white part of the continent, nothing cheaper than leaving the calf on the cow with decent hay and water for the winter.

Compensatory gain in a wonderful thing, but what ADG do you target over the winter?

Have been wintering replacements like this till weaning them in March. Sometimes I provide a little oats behind a creep gate. Thinking about pulling off the tail enders and doing this with most 2016 steers and heifers.

I asked a west river rancher why they don't do retain more. He said they have a hard time finding enough feed to winter the cows. Sounds like they have too many cows...

Market risk is same as 2015/2016 - - increasing supply and decreasing price. Talking heads are guesstimating another U$S 5 decline.

 

[Aaron]

In the cold and white part of the continent, nothing cheaper than leaving the calf on the cow with decent hay and water for the winter.

Compensatory gain in a wonderful thing, but what ADG do you target over the winter?

Have been wintering replacements like this till weaning them in March. Sometimes I provide a little oats behind a creep gate. Thinking about pulling off the tail enders and doing this with most 2016 steers and heifers.

I asked a west river rancher why they don't do retain more. He said they have a hard time finding enough feed to winter the cows. Sounds like they have too many cows...

Market risk is same as 2015/2016 - - increasing supply and decreasing price. Talking heads are guesstimating another U$S 5 decline.

Leaving on cows, gains have been 2.5 to 3.3 lbs per day, with most in the 2.8 to 3.0 range.

 

[RanchMan90]

Wheat pasture gains are 40¢ a lb this year, feed cog coming in pretty close. I'm a bit East of wheat pasture so feed + grass is pretty cost efficient here.

 

[Bigfoot]

Not sure what the cost of gain is for each scenerio I do is, but I have better daily gains when I divide my feed in to a morning, and an evening feeding. Seems like putting out the same amount of feed just once a day doesn't do as much. My worst gains from just grass in the heat of the summer.

 

[talltimber]

The heifers I kept this summer for replacements were 16 cents/lb. That's feed only, no wormer, mineral, fly tags, grass cost, etc.
Now they weren't gaining but 1.97/day, and that's what I needed to get them to 800+ by the first of Nov "ish" . The hot dry put a damper on the fescue in Sept/Oct or they would have done much better. Putting double the feed to them now, and they are doing good and are ready for a bull when I find them one.

 

[RanchMan90]

The heifers I kept this summer for replacements were 16 cents/lb. That's feed only, no wormer, mineral, fly tags, grass cost, etc.
Now they weren't gaining but 1.97/day, and that's what I needed to get them to 800+ by the first of Nov "ish" . The hot dry put a damper on the fescue in Sept/Oct or they would have done much better. Putting double the feed to them now, and they are doing good and are ready for a bull when I find them one.

What would that break down to 3 lbs of feed a day? What ration? Not including land costs

 

[talltimber]

Exactly. Well, as exact as I get it. I don't weigh it out but once in a bucket full. This was hand feeding too, not out of a feeder.
13% commodity blend.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Leaving on cows, gains have been 2.5 to 3.3 lbs per day, with most in the 2.8 to 3.0 range.

Impressive gain. Milk must be magic. Have you every tested the "decent hay" ?

 

[Aaron]

Leaving on cows, gains have been 2.5 to 3.3 lbs per day, with most in the 2.8 to 3.0 range.

Impressive gain. Milk must be magic. Have you every tested the "decent hay" ?

I don't know what it is, but my gains are just as good left on the cow as when I weaned and fed a high end ration with 2nd crop alfalfa. I have the sample probe to test, never have used it. Maybe I will this winter just for curiosity. Always told that trefoil has 10% protein in the stems alone, so that is what I always use as my base protein level.

 

[Stocker Steve]

It is interesting to look at what MN cows in the Farm Management Program winter on. The average (return to overhead) cow get an average of 5,662# corn silage, and some hay. This may be why they are in the program...

The high (return to overhead) group gets an average of 2,449# corn silage. Doesn't sound like a cow, much less a pair, can winter on hay. :nod:

 

[Aaron]

It is interesting to look at what MN cows in the Farm Management Program winter on. The average (return to overhead) cow get an average of 5,662# corn silage, and some hay. This may be why they are in the program...

The high (return to overhead) group gets an average of 2,449# corn silage. Doesn't sound like a cow, much less a pair, can winter on hay. :nod:

Preaching to the choir on who is making money and who is losing it.

 

[Stocker Steve]

In central MN corn silage is a legacy from the family dairy days. Everyone had a couple upright silos and the associated equipment. This can work well for back grounded calves or fed cows, but is a bit spendy for bred cows. I think feeding out slaughter cows is the ideal silage app here.
The trendy thing today is grazing cover crop mixes with weaned calves in the fall. The economics varies due to a wide range of seed mixes, dry matter yields, and feed values. I think you need 5 tons DM per acre to make this attractive, but many folks are only getting 1.5 to 3.0 tons.
Right now hay is quite cheap. So leaving calves on the cows costs about an additional 62 cents of feed per day per pair. With 1.7# ADG that divides out to a 37 cent COG. Seems like you would only wean calves in fall when there was a drought, or you have a hard keeping cow. What am I missing?

 

[Aaron]

In central MN corn silage is a legacy from the family dairy days. Everyone had a couple upright silos and the associated equipment. This can work well for back grounded calves or fed cows, but is a bit spendy for bred cows. I think feeding out slaughter cows is the ideal silage app here.
The trendy thing today is grazing cover crop mixes with weaned calves in the fall. The economics varies due to a wide range of seed mixes, dry matter yields, and feed values. I think you need 5 tons DM per acre to make this attractive, but many folks are only getting 1.5 to 3.0 tons.
Right now hay is quite cheap. So leaving calves on the cows costs about an additional 62 cents of feed per day per pair. With 1.7# ADG that divides out to a 37 cent COG. Seems like you would only wean calves in fall when there was a drought, or you have a hard keeping cow. What am I missing?

Have 2 first timers that will get the calves taken off shortly as they are in pretty rough shape going into winter.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I have about 5% that are thin. Mostly old cows that need to go.
There is some talk about liver flukes being a cause for thin cows. Do you treat for this?