Average Age of Open Cull

[angus9259]

I just read in a government ag paper that the average productive life span of a cow is 7-9 years barring disease and malnutrition. Do you think that's accurate? What's it like in your herd? I know we all have those cows that are productive into their teens or even 20, but what's the average?

How do you see it happening? Do they just show up completely open or do the keep slipping back further and further into the calving cycle till they just don't fit your program any more?

 

[TexasBred]

"Barring disease and malnutrtion". Man that should raise the numbers. One thing that will skew the numbers would be including holstein. A huge number of holsteins are culled before they're 4 years old for one reason or another. I hear a lot of folks on here say they cull everything that doesn't calve every 12 months or less. But cull also doesn't always mean "kill" so would have to see the report to really know how they arrived at their numbers. A lot of "culls" at sale barns are taken back home by some other producer and work nicely for them.

 

[bigbull338]

i know people that cull cows at 10yrs old.so that they dont have meny problems in the herd if any.i cull them when they no longer produce like they should.

 

[angus9259]

"Barring disease and malnutrtion". Man that should raise the numbers. One thing that will skew the numbers would be including holstein. A huge number of holsteins are culled before they're 4 years old for one reason or another. I hear a lot of folks on here say they cull everything that doesn't calve every 12 months or less. But cull also doesn't always mean "kill" so would have to see the report to really know how they arrived at their numbers. A lot of "culls" at sale barns are taken back home by some other producer and work nicely for them.

What do you? When does your average "non productive cow" pop up? How do you determine? Annual preg checking? Tight calving window?

 

[angus9259]

i cull them when they no longer produce like they should.

How old is that generally for you?

 

[3waycross]

3 I am starting to really hate heifers!

 

[TexasBred]

"Barring disease and malnutrtion". Man that should raise the numbers. One thing that will skew the numbers would be including holstein. A huge number of holsteins are culled before they're 4 years old for one reason or another. I hear a lot of folks on here say they cull everything that doesn't calve every 12 months or less. But cull also doesn't always mean "kill" so would have to see the report to really know how they arrived at their numbers. A lot of "culls" at sale barns are taken back home by some other producer and work nicely for them.

What do you? When does your average "non productive cow" pop up? How do you determine? Annual preg checking? Tight calving window?

Never really checked it that close Angus. Had a lot of cattle 7-8-9 years, sound in every way and still productive. But also sold one after having 1st calf because of lack of milk and sold another after 1st calf because we couldnt' get her bred back. Took 3 times with 1st calf. When we dairied average age of the cattle was seldom much over 4 as culling rates often ran 25% or higher due to heavy pressures put on dairy cattle although there were always a few exceptions that seemed to always to everything right and never had any other problems.

 

[John SD]

Cows in their teens are a real exception nowdays. I'd say most of my cows go to town at 10-12. Had quite a few teenagers on the place in the notorious winter of '96-97. Those old girls hung tough until spring got here. When spring came, they laid down and delivered a decent live calf, but I had about 6 of them that never got up again. Lesson learned.

IMO, cows need to be looked at objectively each year and rigidly culled for lack of fertility and physical and mental imperfections. Udder problems, bad feet, attitude problems, etc aren't worth fooling with.

I don't mind a cow exercising her natural maternal traits so much at calving if she deems it necessary. What I won't put up with a cow that is wild or high headed or just a plain mean old rip the other 364 days of the year. Goes for fence crawlers too, because they teach the others bad habits.

 

[cow pollinater]

I'm actually kind of surprised that the average is that high if dairy cattle are factored in. Even with dairy cattle excluded most of the big ranches that I've been on cull at somewhere around nine years and that acounts for thousands of cattle so a few teenagers in smaller herds don't swing the average that much.
Dairymen here in the central valley (biggest dairy region in the world) have to manage each stall on the dairy for maximum efficiency to get the most efficient cow in that spot instead of trying to get each cow to produce to her potential no matter what. That weeds out some cows that really don't have all that much wrong with them pretty fast.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I know I've mentioned this once before, and this particular cow belongs to a very small, 2-3 cows operation so it's not at all similar to most outfits, but . . . . a co-worker of mine raised a heifer calf on the bottle, so they know just how old she is. (And when I give you this number, I may be off a year, one way or the other, because my memory banks aren't all filled up right now.) But that cow calved last Spring, with no issues except her udder goes practically to the ground, at age 22. She's bred back again!

 

[angus9259]

The number in the article was beef cattle - not dairy.

 

[angus9259]

the big ranches that I've been on cull at somewhere around nine years

Did they HAVE to? Were they open or was it something of a standard mgmt practice?

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I know I've mentioned this once before, and this particular cow belongs to a very small, 2-3 cows operation so it's not at all similar to most outfits, but . . . . a co-worker of mine raised a heifer calf on the bottle, so they know just how old she is. (And when I give you this number, I may be off a year, one way or the other, because my memory banks aren't all filled up right now.) But that cow calved last Spring, with no issues except her udder goes practically to the ground, at age 22. She's bred back again!

Angus9259 - This is a beef cow -- Heinz 57 variety.

 

[angus9259]

I know I've mentioned this once before, and this particular cow belongs to a very small, 2-3 cows operation so it's not at all similar to most outfits, but . . . . a co-worker of mine raised a heifer calf on the bottle, so they know just how old she is. (And when I give you this number, I may be off a year, one way or the other, because my memory banks aren't all filled up right now.) But that cow calved last Spring, with no issues except her udder goes practically to the ground, at age 22. She's bred back again!

Angus9259 - This is a beef cow -- Heinz 57 variety.

So what is the average age when a cow doesn't seem to breed back in your group? Exceptions aside. I've got some oldies too that never seem to give up the ghost but what to you experience as normal?

 

[SRBeef]

I've only had my cattle for about 6 years now. My oldest is about 10 years old and has a nice calf every year.

I have culled for attitude (bad) and size (too big). Now am getting my average size down and attitude up. Since I am not buying any more females and buying/breeding bulls with smaller size and good attitude, that sort of culling should be about over with.

From now on, if a hiefer is chosen to stay on as a cow she will be kept until she comes up open at fall preg check time. Had 2 come up open in last 4 years. Last fall's one open was 5 yrs old and had been a good cow. Vet said she was open and had a uterine problem last fall, she went to the sale the next day.

So cows will stay in my herd until they come up open at preg check or are way out of sync (>3 cycles?) but haven't seen that yet. I don't know what age they will start turning up open but I'm hoping it is old.

Jim

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I know I've mentioned this once before, and this particular cow belongs to a very small, 2-3 cows operation so it's not at all similar to most outfits, but . . . . a co-worker of mine raised a heifer calf on the bottle, so they know just how old she is. (And when I give you this number, I may be off a year, one way or the other, because my memory banks aren't all filled up right now.) But that cow calved last Spring, with no issues except her udder goes practically to the ground, at age 22. She's bred back again!

Angus9259 - This is a beef cow -- Heinz 57 variety.

So what is the average age when a cow doesn't seem to breed back in your group? Exceptions aside. I've got some oldies too that never seem to give up the ghost but what to you experience as normal?

We haven't been in this long enough to know how long we can count on our girls to do their jobs. So, I have no clue! I'm just amazed at this old local cow, who's history is undisputed, since she's been with the same people forever. I bought 2 of the old gal's 2011 heifers this Fall, hoping they've inherited some of that longevity. The heifers are either 3/4 or 7/8 BA, but no one knows for sure what all else was in the old girl's ancestry besides being BA-sired. She's a red cow; her BA-sired daughter is yellow. One of the BA-sired heifers is red; the other is yellow, and they are twins out of the yellow daughter. Time will tell . . . . . .

 

[cow pollinater]

the big ranches that I've been on cull at somewhere around nine years

Did they HAVE to? Were they open or was it something of a standard mgmt practice?

Standard procedure. If you have five hundred cows and you've been using similar genetics for ten years and you start seeing problems when you try to hold cows ten years, the obvious answer is to cull at nine years and replace those cow's spot in the pasture with a cow that most likely won't have the same problems and then your calf crop is maximized. Sure, half of them could be productive into their teens but for every one that isn't we've fed a cow that didn't produce a calf.
Keep in mind that the western half of the US can offer some rough country. I have over a thousand feet of rise on thirteen hundred acres and my leased pasture before I bought this place was worse than that. It takes a big toll on them and young cows handle it better than old cows do.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

The last 2 cows that I culled for being open were 14 yo and the other was 16 yo.

I culled a 9 yo last year due to her bad attitude, but she was still breeding on time and producing nice calves.

As long as they're still breeding on time and producing a good calf and 'maintaining', they stay, I don't care how old they are.

Katherine

 

[Caustic Burno]

The last 2 cows that I culled for being open were 14 yo and the other was 16 yo.

I culled a 9 yo last year due to her bad attitude, but she was still breeding on time and producing nice calves.

As long as they're still breeding on time and producing a good calf and 'maintaining', they stay, I don't care how old they are.

Katherine

I kept one of the old girls when I culled down she still has good teeth and condition will be 20 this year. To top it all off she has never had a hiefer, now I don't retain hefiers . I would hers.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

The last 2 cows that I culled for being open were 14 yo and the other was 16 yo.

I culled a 9 yo last year due to her bad attitude, but she was still breeding on time and producing nice calves.

As long as they're still breeding on time and producing a good calf and 'maintaining', they stay, I don't care how old they are.

Katherine

I kept one of the old girls when I culled down she still has good teeth and condition will be 20 this year. To top it all off she has never had a hiefer, now I don't retain hefiers . I would hers.

CB -- The old girl here mostly pumped out bull calves, which was fine with her owner, as they were just doing a beef calf a year for their home consumption. When she kicked out a heifer a couple of years ago, they decided they should keep her for replacement on the same program.