are our bulls getting better???

[cypressfarms]

I just read a study showing the data for Charalois bulls and cows from 1990 to 2003. I was surprised to find the following results:

Bulls Cows
BW WW YW BW WW YW
1990 93 633 1131 89 580 871
2003 92 655 1184 86 596 913

This was amazing to me. Are we improving bull and cows to have lower birth weights while increasing their WW and YW? This would indicate some great management selection, if it's true.

Does anyone know if this extends to other breeds as well?

Ofcourse one has to assume that all data collected is true...

 

[cypressfarms]

The graph didn't come out right

The first row represents 1990 data, the second row represents 2003 data. Also bulls are listed first from left to right. Sorry the columns didn't line up like I thought, but you can still see the improvement.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I understood your figures, and yes this is also true with Simmental.
Everyone likes to Pooh Pooh epd's, but producers have been using them to pick those "spread" bulls (low BW - high growth) and it works.
I am a strong believer of epd's - but as one tool - part of the picture, but they work!

 

[dun]

From the Red Angus Association

http://www.redangus.org/genpred/images/growth.jpg

 

[cypressfarms]

so dun,

it appears that red angus also follow this trend, Are people really culling/managing better to produce these numbers, or are they white lies?

BTW, I am hoping that these are valid data. It would mean that the industry actually has it's act together and working in the correct direction.

Wonder if this increase ww and yw has come at a decrease in quality?

 

[dun]

so dun,

it appears that red angus also follow this trend, Are people really culling/managing better to produce these numbers, or are they white lies?

BTW, I am hoping that these are valid data. It would mean that the industry actually has it's act together and working in the correct direction.

Wonder if this increase ww and yw has come at a decrease in quality?

The RAA has and alwasy has had total herd reporting. It's a lot harder to fudge numbers if you have to report all weaning weights, calving difficulties, etc.
It's all part of the package. That's one of the reasons I have confidence in their EPDs over some of the other breeds like Hereford. Data that has been cherry picked isn;t much better then a SWAG.
Here's the trend for carcass:
http://www.redangus.org/genpred/images/carcass.jpg

dun

 

[txag]

The RAA has and alwasy has had total herd reporting. It's a lot harder to fudge numbers if you have to report all weaning weights, calving difficulties, etc.
It's all part of the package. That's one of the reasons I have confidence in their EPDs over some of the other breeds like Hereford. Data that has been cherry picked isn;t much better then a SWAG.
Here's the trend for carcass:
http://www.redangus.org/genpred/images/carcass.jpg

dun

while not quite as long as the RA Assoc (THR-1995?), the AHA has been using TPR since Jan 2001.

 

[Tod Dague]

The RAA has and alwasy has had total herd reporting. It's a lot harder to fudge numbers if you have to report all weaning weights, calving difficulties, etc.
It's all part of the package. That's one of the reasons I have confidence in their EPDs over some of the other breeds like Hereford. Data that has been cherry picked isn;t much better then a SWAG.
Here's the trend for carcass:
http://www.redangus.org/genpred/images/carcass.jpg

dun

while not quite as long as the RA Assoc (THR-1995?), the AHA has been using TPR since Jan 2001.

I thought that TPR was a voluntary deal.

 

[Kent]

if you want EPDs on your animals. You are either a "registration only" breeder or a TPR breeder. Animals from "reg. only" herds do not have EPDs calculated on them.

As far as "cherry picking" goes, I don't see how picking only the good animals would help anyone. When you only report some of the herd, it's as if that is your whole herd. The computer doesn't know or care if you left animals out. Your contemporary groups are composed of whatever you report. Not reporting the lower performing animals hurts, not helps, you good animals' EPDs. Someone doing that is not very "EPD savvy" if he is trying to cheat that way. A calf with a 110 weaning ratio may only have a 104 if you only report the top half of calves, and those ratios are very important in calculating EPDs.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I understood your figures, and yes this is also true with Simmental.
Everyone likes to Pooh Pooh epd's, but producers have been using them to pick those "spread" bulls (low BW - high growth) and it works.
I am a strong believer of epd's - but as one tool - part of the picture, but they work!

Hmmm-m-m-m! For some unfathomable and strange reason - - these words appear to be very familiar to me! :shock: ;-) Hmmm-m-m-m- EPD's used as a TOOL for a selection procedure in Beef Cattle Management! :shock: If I am correct, the above cited fact regarding "spread" bulls is true for every breed with which I am familiar! I am wondering how many millions - yes - MILLIONS of words have been written and read concerning using "EPD's" as a TOOL in concert with Phenotype and other TOOLS to help the Cattle producer!

SHE-E-ESH!

Cut me some slack!

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS

 

[C HOLLAND]

Chill out Doc,,,,,don't get the blood pressure up.

it's just another person asking a question that maybe they didn't see the answers to before.

Besides Doc, I may ask one or two myself and I may need you to have the thinking cap on to help this ole ROOKIE out.

Doc, I think I read to much on this forum because I keep changing my mind as to what direction I want to take. I haven't made any sudden changes yet, just alot of reading and research and listening to people like you that know alot about this business.

 

[C HOLLAND]

Cypress, Are you going to the Sunshine Farms sale Saturday

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Chill out Doc,,,,,don't get the blood pressure up.

it's just another person asking a question that maybe they didn't see the answers to before.

Besides Doc, I may ask one or two myself and I may need you to have the thinking cap on to help this ole ROOKIE out.

Doc, I think I read to much on this forum because I keep changing my mind as to what direction I want to take. I haven't made any sudden changes yet, just alot of reading and research and listening to people like you that know alot about this business.

C HOLLAND - No no no, don't think that you read too much on these Forums! There are SO many experienced and knowledgeable cattle breeders on these Forums that you have access to for the answering of ALL questions you may have in your mind, you would be making a HUGE mistake to be hesitant about reading thenm! You say you keep changing your mind! WONDERFUL! Only a fool would be arrogant enough to think that he knows so much that he would refuse to change his mind about SOME things. By the same token, only a fool would change his mind if, after reading and studying and learning he realizes that his decisions were correct in the first place - but by THAT time he knows that he KNOWS that he KNOWS that he was right in the first place! In order to be successful in WHATEVER endeavor one undertakes one must read, and study, and think, and learn, and question, and think some more and NEVER QUIT, NEVER QUIT, NEVER QUIT!

NOW - Get out there on that field and make some TOUCHDOWNS! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: (And watch that Right Linebacker - he's a sharp cookie!)

DOC HARRIS

 

[preston39]

As i speak with production cattleman elimination of problems in calving is a big interest. For obvious reasons they don't want to give up growth and WW. Little is asked about milk and other important EPD"S for a balance. So, the numbers sited would suggest the breeders are responding to the production demands. I have seen similair changes being noted over 10 and 20 year periods concerning other breeds as well.

 

[cypressfarms]

Cypress, Are you going to the Sunshine Farms sale Saturday

C,

I can't. It's a long drive, and my wife would probably change the locks by the time I got back. Besides, LSU is playing Georgia, and I've been waiting for that one.

If the prices and quality are good, then I'll probably contact them an either buy one private treaty, buy from another simiangus breeder, or wait until next year.

Thanks though, and if you go let me know how it went please.