If you were going to start building a herd and start small with 4-6 heifers or cows and you wanting the Hereford/Angus combo. Remember I'm in the middle Tn. area as far as that goes. Would you go with Hereford cows or Angus cows and why or go straight to the Baldie mamas? I've worked around and with Angus cows for the last three years so I'm leaning toward those with a Hereford bull but I like to hear others opinions and why.
Another Hereford/Angus ?
- Thread starter tncattle
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I live close to Jackson, I had a hard time finding Hereford females, I use Black Angus cows...I breed 4 years ( 2 bulls ,2 years ea.) Black ANgus, then breed 2 years Reg. Hereford,,,Then 4 years (2 bulls, 2 years ea.) ,,Then Reg. Hereford this year and next...Then at least 2 years to Black Angus, althought I have thought about using a Balancer, gives me my angus plus hybrid vigor...I keep my heifers and cull hard, and my F-1 black baldies are the best cows....The calves in the spinge out of the F-1 will be 3/4 hereford and 1/4 b. angus...o my je wiz ..I going to have RED CATTLE, well at least the will be white face, not all red... And half will be males and I going to eat them....
I would go with Hereford cows and a good Red Angus bull.
Since nobody else thinks like I do, if you can find "good quality" Hereford cows for less money then the equal quality angus cows I would go that way, but if it's the other way around I would go with the angus cows and AI them to a top Hereford bull.
But I prefer red to black in the pastures.
Since nobody else thinks like I do, if you can find "good quality" Hereford cows for less money then the equal quality angus cows I would go that way, but if it's the other way around I would go with the angus cows and AI them to a top Hereford bull.
But I prefer red to black in the pastures.
Angus Cowman
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if you went with herf cows and a simmangus bull for a 3 way cross would make some dandy calves
If you're handy with the AI gun - do both. Then run an angus cleanup bull (plug intended :nod: ) which will still land you some registered angus cows to resell or breed back hereford and/or another registered angus bull you can use for cleanup. I try to complicate things as much as possible - it's a gift.
ColemanCreekCattle
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Middle Tenn is a great place for Hereford Angus cross cattle, so that isnt an issue.
Hereford cattle:
Low lean; Moderate marbling and BF category
low to moderate milk/ high longevity
Extremely lean (high cutability) Limmy and Charolais and extremely fat (low cutability) Angus, Shorthorn carcasses are not desirable. We should look for moderation.
Sixty percent of the quality carcass traits comes from the Sire: If you are looking for moderation, I would go with the Angus cows and Horned Hereford bulls. All your calves should be polled, anyway. As far as affecting marbling through feeding >
Management (feeding) only slightly affects marbling and it is predominantly genetically influenced, although certain implant strategies may also have a marked effect on marbling and intramuscular fat deposition.
In value-based marketing, marbling has merit on its own, but must be considered in combination with other carcass traits. The most desirable carcasses are choice grade or higher, which takes into account marbling.
Angus/hereford account for 75% of High choice cattle in this country, with Limmy, Saler, and several others accounting for only 43% grading High choice.
Angus Hereford has worked for decades--- don't try to fix it if it works.................
On my A/HH cross heifers I would breed them to low birth weight medium frame moderate milking simmental bulls, like SS Ebony's Grandmaster for extra growth and not giving up too much to frame.
Hereford cattle:
Low lean; Moderate marbling and BF category
low to moderate milk/ high longevity
Extremely lean (high cutability) Limmy and Charolais and extremely fat (low cutability) Angus, Shorthorn carcasses are not desirable. We should look for moderation.
Sixty percent of the quality carcass traits comes from the Sire: If you are looking for moderation, I would go with the Angus cows and Horned Hereford bulls. All your calves should be polled, anyway. As far as affecting marbling through feeding >
Management (feeding) only slightly affects marbling and it is predominantly genetically influenced, although certain implant strategies may also have a marked effect on marbling and intramuscular fat deposition.
In value-based marketing, marbling has merit on its own, but must be considered in combination with other carcass traits. The most desirable carcasses are choice grade or higher, which takes into account marbling.
Angus/hereford account for 75% of High choice cattle in this country, with Limmy, Saler, and several others accounting for only 43% grading High choice.
Angus Hereford has worked for decades--- don't try to fix it if it works.................
On my A/HH cross heifers I would breed them to low birth weight medium frame moderate milking simmental bulls, like SS Ebony's Grandmaster for extra growth and not giving up too much to frame.
tncattle":x3ix6sca said:
ColemanCreekCattle":29yoltic said:
Genetics are key, but management is very important in carcass quality. There are studies all over the place showing the younger a calf is put on feed, the more likely he'll produce a high quality carcass. Improper use of implants can also affect marbling; that's management, too.
This article by Dr. Harlan Ritchie lists several management items that can/do affect carcass quality (marbling).
http://www.cabpartners.com/news/researc ... fpaper.pdf
ColemanCreekCattle
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Genetics are key, but management is very important in carcass quality. There are studies all over the place showing the younger a calf is put on feed, the more likely he'll produce a high quality carcass. Improper use of implants can also affect marbling; that's management, too.
I think you are a little confused there as it isnt the younger the calf is put on feed but rather the younger he reaches finished weight
I think you are a little confused there as it isnt the younger the calf is put on feed but rather the younger he reaches finished weight
I live in Middle Tennessee and have registered Angus cows and registered Hereford cows. My bull is a registered horned Hereford. I get the Black Bladie from the Angus cows and straight Herefords from the Hereford cows. I like the Hereford Bull on Angus cows only because of the milk. Now, if you find good Hereford cows that milk really well then no problem using the Angus Bull. Over the next few years (3-5) I will probably be straight Hereford cows and a Red Angus or Red Balancer Bull. Living in or near Jackson there are some really good Hereford breeders. You may want to get in touch Scott Woolfolk (Woolfolk Herefords) They have both Herefords and Black Baldie heifers. I did straight Angus for a while but a planned crossbreeding program is the way to go.
ColemanCreekCattle
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Sure I read it -- their is no study to back it up--- this is not a peer reviewed or published article ----
If this was indeed the facts-- there would be more articles adressing these ideas today -- not just one 2005 article-- with no study to back it up and no Journal Peer review
Interesting though
If this was indeed the facts-- there would be more articles adressing these ideas today -- not just one 2005 article-- with no study to back it up and no Journal Peer review
Interesting though
Brandonm22
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I am not taking the time too look it up; but Angus has been trumpeting the concept of getting calves on grain as early as possible too maximize the marbling in the final product for a while now.....in a whole lot more than just one article. I question the economics of it (especially with the recent low choice-select spread)......I don't doubt for a minute however that calves with access too creep feeders for 150 days are going to deposit more marbling than the same genetics that were weaned on just grass and milk.
novatech
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Might make a difference if you sold on the rail or used for home processing but I cannot see the advantage for most of the producers. Seems like a big expense for the producer and more profit for the packer.Brandonm22":1x9xxia8 said:
ColemanCreekCattle":2tewzd4d said:
Either you didn't read it or you're simply ignoring it. Dr. Ritchie references several studies from universities and agencies in his paper.
http://www.cabpartners.com/news/researc ... fpaper.pdf
The Angus Assn has spent big bucks the last few years studying marbling. Articles often appear in the Angus Journal or Angus Beef Bulletin and they show management plays a big role in marbling (quality grade). So ignore it if you want, but it's a fact. Whether it will pay the producer to creep feed his calves for that extra marbling is something he has to work out for himself.
Brandonm22
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novatech":3ewvbvd1 said:
IF you retain ownership and sell on a quality grid creep feeding the calves MIGHT pay you. For the typical commercial guy with good grass who sells 500-650 lb weaners by the pound at the stockyard it looks like a sure way to lose money.
