another feeding out question

[aplusmnt]

MM - the biggest thing is their "growth curve". Calves have a growth curve, and if their nutrition level is not kept up, you flatten our their curve. Yes, when you put them BACK on good feed, their growth curve will start up again, but will never achieve the high growth curve it would have had - if that makes sense.
Taste is achieved the last 60-90 days of feed, but Farmhand is correct - started on grain at a young age & kept on grain thru finish - they will have MORE marbling. Also, if you put them on a "holding - slow growth" stage, they will grow FRAME, not muscle, and therefore would need to be heavier at finish than if you kept them at a steady growth.
So, you will save money from the weaning time to the 800# wt, but you will lose that gain by needing more grain to get to the "finish" weight. So, in my opinion, you will be losing the time (and $$) from WW to 800#.
This is the same thing the old large framed Simm steers ran into. People would put them on a background program after weaning, than put into the feedlot and they ended up with 1700# finished steers at around 2 yrs old. But if they had put the 800# weaned calf right on the feedlot, they would have finished around 1300#-1400# at 15-16 months old.

Interesting info! We always start our show steers out early anyway but now I know why it works and not to mess around with it in future. AAOK has always said weaning early and getting on feed would improve your show animals, must be due to reasons you mentioned.

 

[milkmaid]

MM - the biggest thing is their "growth curve". Calves have a growth curve, and if their nutrition level is not kept up, you flatten our their curve. Yes, when you put them BACK on good feed, their growth curve will start up again, but will never achieve the high growth curve it would have had - if that makes sense.
Taste is achieved the last 60-90 days of feed, but Farmhand is correct - started on grain at a young age & kept on grain thru finish - they will have MORE marbling. Also, if you put them on a "holding - slow growth" stage, they will grow FRAME, not muscle, and therefore would need to be heavier at finish than if you kept them at a steady growth.
So, you will save money from the weaning time to the 800# wt, but you will lose that gain by needing more grain to get to the "finish" weight. So, in my opinion, you will be losing the time (and $$) from WW to 800#.
This is the same thing the old large framed Simm steers ran into. People would put them on a background program after weaning, than put into the feedlot and they ended up with 1700# finished steers at around 2 yrs old. But if they had put the 800# weaned calf right on the feedlot, they would have finished around 1300#-1400# at 15-16 months old.

Interesting! That makes plenty of sense. Thanks a bunch for the explanation, Jeanne. I always love to know the "why" of everything, and that gives me a really good reason to keep them on grain.

I have a question for you though... do you suppose it makes a difference how much grain they're on from WW to ~800lbs? In other words, is a couple pounds a day sufficient, or do they need to be on 2% of their body weight?

I lost my cheap grain source so I'm debating which groups of calves get their grain cut and which ones will continue to get grain, and how much grain. Can't afford to keep my entire herd on grain.

 

[aplusmnt]

MM - the biggest thing is their "growth curve". Calves have a growth curve, and if their nutrition level is not kept up, you flatten our their curve. Yes, when you put them BACK on good feed, their growth curve will start up again, but will never achieve the high growth curve it would have had - if that makes sense.
Taste is achieved the last 60-90 days of feed, but Farmhand is correct - started on grain at a young age & kept on grain thru finish - they will have MORE marbling. Also, if you put them on a "holding - slow growth" stage, they will grow FRAME, not muscle, and therefore would need to be heavier at finish than if you kept them at a steady growth.
So, you will save money from the weaning time to the 800# wt, but you will lose that gain by needing more grain to get to the "finish" weight. So, in my opinion, you will be losing the time (and $$) from WW to 800#.
This is the same thing the old large framed Simm steers ran into. People would put them on a background program after weaning, than put into the feedlot and they ended up with 1700# finished steers at around 2 yrs old. But if they had put the 800# weaned calf right on the feedlot, they would have finished around 1300#-1400# at 15-16 months old.

Interesting! That makes plenty of sense. Thanks a bunch for the explanation, Jeanne. I always love to know the "why" of everything, and that gives me a really good reason to keep them on grain.

I have a question for you though... do you suppose it makes a difference how much grain they're on from WW to ~800lbs? In other words, is a couple pounds a day sufficient, or do they need to be on 2% of their body weight?

I lost my cheap grain source so I'm debating which groups of calves get their grain cut and which ones will continue to get grain, and how much grain. Can't afford to keep my entire herd on grain.

I wonder how much some good quality alfalfa hay would do to supplement some of the grain? Say especially when they are at the lighter weight.

 

[milkmaid]

FWIW, as far as hay goes, all I have left for the rest of the winter is some really rich (dairy quality) 3rd crop alfalfa. I just don't know if feeding it alone is as good as grain -- at least in the sense of keeping up a strong growth curve.

I have the holstein/angus crosses at 500lbs, some long-yearlings (900lbs?) that are 3 months bred, and then my open holstein heifer herd that averaged 738lbs today. Technically I suppose none of my herd really "need" grain, but they certainly grow better with some supplement. :nod:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

MM - how much grain is really in "the eye of the master". If you were talking about my show calves - it's pretty much how much they clean up good, but economics dictates how you want to handle them. They won't need to be "pushed", just keep they GROWING - muscle & bone - not just bone. I'm not familiar with Alfalfa - never feed it - but always hear how great it is, so you may easily get by with less grain.
I just know that Dr. Dan Fox at Cornell explained the growth curve to us, and said if you stop the curve, you will never get as good a curve again. And after 12 months of age it pretty much flattens out anyway.