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angus/saler cross
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<blockquote data-quote="Anonymous" data-source="post: 3829"><p>SCott, this needs a comfortable chair ,a fire and a bottle of something to sip on. I think we're approaching this from diffrernt ends of the question . a larger carcass makes slaughter more efficient and since so much of commodity meat production is processed product driven, what you say is perfectly logical. On the other hand I no longer order beef when I eat out. The last sirloin I had was rubbery, most steak houses have gone to a marinated product and the vast majority of people think a good piece of beef needs to bleed when served in order to chew it. I ate with a bunch of city people at a dude ranch and felt like I was dining with the cast of Eaters of The Dead. The local packer that did the steers in our breed's trial likes a half inch of cover on the carcass for his resturant trade. I think this is to insure that the mix of cattle he gets show some marbling .The ONLY real problem with english- continental crosses that I see are that crosses aren't a 50/50 deal. Life of an angus heifer X saler bull(s); first calf is a meat wagon with very little marbling and takes almost 200 days to feed, #2 calf marbles good finishes lite and still doesn't grade at slaughter , #3 calf looks like papa grows like a weed and makes premium. #4 calf is a duplicate of the first one with the marbling and whoever gets his steak is mighty pleased #5 calf is back to no marbling and is fed an extra 20 days. The problem I see is that many commercial herds are a scramble of genetics, Leachman stated that he tries to sell bulls to unscramble cow herds and make them look the same and manage the same and even he admited that they are just now starting to work on carcass traits Here's another nouget of info that may apply to the way I look at beef( the product) marbling isn't directly linked to tenderness and flavor. The guy at texas with the bovine genome mapping project thinks there may be a dozen or more actual genes related to taste and flavor. anyway my hands are hurting , I type like I drive a nail and with 2 fingers thats slow and painful. like to kick this around some more though> Good question let me start by</p><p>> laying out the strengths of each</p><p>> side of the cross:</p><p></p><p>> Angus (British):</p><p></p><p>> Strengths - early maturity, good</p><p>> marbling, low birthweight, polled,</p><p>> good maternal</p><p></p><p>> Weaknesses - small carcass size,</p><p>> low yield grade</p><p></p><p>> Saler (Continental):</p><p></p><p>> Strengths - moderate marbling, low</p><p>> birthweights, good yield, good</p><p>> mothering ability, polled (in</p><p>> selected genetics)</p><p></p><p>> Weaknesses - large finished frame</p><p>> size, longer finishing time</p><p></p><p>> O.K. now that we have laid out the</p><p>> ground work (this is a generalized</p><p>> list that I expect to raise some</p><p>> discussion)now we can look at why</p><p>> anyone would want to add</p><p>> continental genetics to angus</p><p>> (british) genetics.</p><p></p><p>> In todays market the packers are</p><p>> looking for a 700-900 lb carcass</p><p>> that can yield grade 2 or better</p><p>> with a outside of 3. YG 1 is paid</p><p>> a small premium while YG 4&5</p><p>> carcasses are penalized heavily.</p><p>> For the most part a fullblood</p><p>> angus carcass will have no problem</p><p>> grading Choice but will have a</p><p>> hard time making a YG2. Also this</p><p>> animal will probably have a</p><p>> carcass weight in the 600-700 LB</p><p>> range. They will finish in about</p><p>> 12-13 months. So while this side</p><p>> brings good marbling to the party</p><p>> they are lacking in muscling. The</p><p>> Saler (continental) breed brings</p><p>> the necessary growth and carcass</p><p>> size to the party. A fullblood</p><p>> Saler will YG 1 or 2 with a low</p><p>> choice to high select quality</p><p>> grade. They will hang a 800-900 lb</p><p>> carcass and will finish in about</p><p>> 15 months. What a breeder that</p><p>> adds continental genetics is</p><p>> looking for is to bring the growth</p><p>> and muscling from the continental</p><p>> breed and the marbling from the</p><p>> british breed and add the hybred</p><p>> vigor from crossing the two</p><p>> seperate breeds to get a target</p><p>> animal that will meet packer</p><p>> specification while having hardy,</p><p>> fertile seedstock. While running</p><p>> baldies will gain some hybred</p><p>> vigor since baldies are angus</p><p>> (british)/ herford (british)</p><p>> crosses the level of hybred vigor</p><p>> is considerably less than a</p><p>> british/continental cross. Also,</p><p>> the herford will not add nearly as</p><p>> much growth and muscling as the</p><p>> continental genetics. Finally,</p><p>> while British breeds as a rule are</p><p>> earlier maturing, as seedstock</p><p>> breeders are producing larger</p><p>> versions maturities are getting</p><p>> closer to continental maturities.</p><p>> To sum it up, a 6.5 frame angus</p><p>> will have a similar maturity and</p><p>> finished weight to a 6.5 frame</p><p>> continental but the 6.5 frame</p><p>> continental will have less</p><p>> external fat and more muscle.</p><p></p><p> <a href="mailto:galloping_gallery@yahoo.com">galloping_gallery@yahoo.com</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Anonymous, post: 3829"] SCott, this needs a comfortable chair ,a fire and a bottle of something to sip on. I think we're approaching this from diffrernt ends of the question . a larger carcass makes slaughter more efficient and since so much of commodity meat production is processed product driven, what you say is perfectly logical. On the other hand I no longer order beef when I eat out. The last sirloin I had was rubbery, most steak houses have gone to a marinated product and the vast majority of people think a good piece of beef needs to bleed when served in order to chew it. I ate with a bunch of city people at a dude ranch and felt like I was dining with the cast of Eaters of The Dead. The local packer that did the steers in our breed's trial likes a half inch of cover on the carcass for his resturant trade. I think this is to insure that the mix of cattle he gets show some marbling .The ONLY real problem with english- continental crosses that I see are that crosses aren't a 50/50 deal. Life of an angus heifer X saler bull(s); first calf is a meat wagon with very little marbling and takes almost 200 days to feed, #2 calf marbles good finishes lite and still doesn't grade at slaughter , #3 calf looks like papa grows like a weed and makes premium. #4 calf is a duplicate of the first one with the marbling and whoever gets his steak is mighty pleased #5 calf is back to no marbling and is fed an extra 20 days. The problem I see is that many commercial herds are a scramble of genetics, Leachman stated that he tries to sell bulls to unscramble cow herds and make them look the same and manage the same and even he admited that they are just now starting to work on carcass traits Here's another nouget of info that may apply to the way I look at beef( the product) marbling isn't directly linked to tenderness and flavor. The guy at texas with the bovine genome mapping project thinks there may be a dozen or more actual genes related to taste and flavor. anyway my hands are hurting , I type like I drive a nail and with 2 fingers thats slow and painful. like to kick this around some more though> Good question let me start by > laying out the strengths of each > side of the cross: > Angus (British): > Strengths - early maturity, good > marbling, low birthweight, polled, > good maternal > Weaknesses - small carcass size, > low yield grade > Saler (Continental): > Strengths - moderate marbling, low > birthweights, good yield, good > mothering ability, polled (in > selected genetics) > Weaknesses - large finished frame > size, longer finishing time > O.K. now that we have laid out the > ground work (this is a generalized > list that I expect to raise some > discussion)now we can look at why > anyone would want to add > continental genetics to angus > (british) genetics. > In todays market the packers are > looking for a 700-900 lb carcass > that can yield grade 2 or better > with a outside of 3. YG 1 is paid > a small premium while YG 4&5 > carcasses are penalized heavily. > For the most part a fullblood > angus carcass will have no problem > grading Choice but will have a > hard time making a YG2. Also this > animal will probably have a > carcass weight in the 600-700 LB > range. They will finish in about > 12-13 months. So while this side > brings good marbling to the party > they are lacking in muscling. The > Saler (continental) breed brings > the necessary growth and carcass > size to the party. A fullblood > Saler will YG 1 or 2 with a low > choice to high select quality > grade. They will hang a 800-900 lb > carcass and will finish in about > 15 months. What a breeder that > adds continental genetics is > looking for is to bring the growth > and muscling from the continental > breed and the marbling from the > british breed and add the hybred > vigor from crossing the two > seperate breeds to get a target > animal that will meet packer > specification while having hardy, > fertile seedstock. While running > baldies will gain some hybred > vigor since baldies are angus > (british)/ herford (british) > crosses the level of hybred vigor > is considerably less than a > british/continental cross. Also, > the herford will not add nearly as > much growth and muscling as the > continental genetics. Finally, > while British breeds as a rule are > earlier maturing, as seedstock > breeders are producing larger > versions maturities are getting > closer to continental maturities. > To sum it up, a 6.5 frame angus > will have a similar maturity and > finished weight to a 6.5 frame > continental but the 6.5 frame > continental will have less > external fat and more muscle. [email=galloping_gallery@yahoo.com]galloping_gallery@yahoo.com[/email] [/QUOTE]
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