Anestrus Cows

[novaman]

I have a couple coming 3 year old Holstein cows that seem to be anestrus. I had problems with these two as heifers and had to give up on AIing and have the clean up bull get them serviced. Now they are giving me fits again. I can't seem to catch them in heat. I use Estrotect patches so I know I'm not missing them if they would be riding. I tried a single shot of Estrumate followed by a second shot 8 days later and nothing. I put them on Ovsynch and TAI them and they still came up open. I'm at a loss as to what the deal is. I would normally cull something giving me problems like these 2 are but they are very good milkers and still young so I'd like to give them a chance. My only other option is to put the clean up bull with them but I've still got other cows I'd like to catch with AI and don't really want the rest to be bred by the bull. Anybody have any ideas on what I could try or what might be the issue?

 

[hillsdown]

Have you tried a sync program using CIDR"S yet ?

I had a 2 year old do the same kept trying until she was well into her 3rd year and eventually ran her with our clean up bull, still came up open. I had to cull her, still don't know why she wasn't cycling anymore ,the vet and I tried everything.
The one time we did see her in heat we AI'd her twice 12 and 12 JIC and then when she didn't have a heat again I thought for sure she was bred but when preg checked she was open and anestrus. Really really makes one mad .

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

Have you palpated for a follicular cyst?

 

[hillsdown]

Have you palpated for a follicular cyst?

GNRH would have been included in his sync program.

 

[angus9259]

Got a 15 mo heifer right now I've not seen in heat. Tried cycling her (with gnrh) and did a timed ai - still open. Running her with the bull now - still no sign of heat. I'm HOPING she gets with the program here but it's pretty rare that they're not cycling by 15 months. I'll probably cull instead of keeping her around. There's too much money in cull right now and feed costs too high to be messing around very long especially when you don't really know what the problem is.

 

[Sessions]

I am having the same problem with a set I am trying to AI... Have done everything the same as you except I used Lute.. So I am pulling the calves for 24hrs and putting them back on for 24.. Will do this a few times.. I'll let you know how it works.. No luck yet

 

[dun]

Got a 15 mo heifer right now I've not seen in heat. Tried cycling her (with gnrh) and did a timed ai - still open. Running her with the bull now - still no sign of heat. I'm HOPING she gets with the program here but it's pretty rare that they're not cycling by 15 months. I'll probably cull instead of keeping her around. There's too much money in cull right now and feed costs too high to be messing around very long especially when you don't really know what the problem is.

Have you had a repro tract scoring done?

 

[angus9259]

Got a 15 mo heifer right now I've not seen in heat. Tried cycling her (with gnrh) and did a timed ai - still open. Running her with the bull now - still no sign of heat. I'm HOPING she gets with the program here but it's pretty rare that they're not cycling by 15 months. I'll probably cull instead of keeping her around. There's too much money in cull right now and feed costs too high to be messing around very long especially when you don't really know what the problem is.

Have you had a repro tract scoring done?

Nope. Never have on any of them.

 

[dun]

Got a 15 mo heifer right now I've not seen in heat. Tried cycling her (with gnrh) and did a timed ai - still open. Running her with the bull now - still no sign of heat. I'm HOPING she gets with the program here but it's pretty rare that they're not cycling by 15 months. I'll probably cull instead of keeping her around. There's too much money in cull right now and feed costs too high to be messing around very long especially when you don't really know what the problem is.

Have you had a repro tract scoring done?

Nope. Never have on any of them.

First thing it will do is tel you if she has a cyst or if both ovarys are functional. After they've claved once that's the important part about na anestrus cow. 50 years ago we would manually pop the CL and with any luck it woldn;t damage the ovary. Now GnRH will/should do the same thing. I would palpate her ovarys, give her shot of GnRH then palpate the ovarys again in a week. At least then you'll know exactly what you're working with. Or in my case I would send her down the road because I don;t want to deal with possible fertility issues in the offspring

 

[cow pollinater]

Novaman,
high milk output means lots of blood flowing through the liver which in turn means hormones like estrogen and progesterone get filtered out of her bloodstream at a much faster pace than they do on a low production cow.
Cidr's (I've never used them but I've seen the numbers) work really well on these cows.
Keep in mind that these are the kinds of cows that realy mess with your services per conception so be prepared to have them show up open a few times before they start really showing you much of anything... just keep pounding away... If you are running an average of three services per conception and these are your poor performers, they only have a one in five chance of showing up pregnant when you finally do get a crack at them.
tips:
On syncronized breeding for these cows, breed them at the time of the final shot and then again twelve to sixteen hours later.
On natural heats, try breeding them the first time you see them jump and then every twelve hours until they are OUT of estrus. Not every cow ovulates on the schedule that we are used to seeing.
Use the most extreme DPR bull that you can get your hands on that still has other traits/price that you can swallow... I did this with a BIG herd about ten years ago that had lots of problems and now we are 95% AI and they go to beef if they show up open after eight tries and they have a really low cull rate.

 

[novaman]

Thanks for the tips pollinator. I think I might try CIDR's and see what happens. Do you give GnRH at day 9 and watch for heats or TAI on day 10?

 

[hillsdown]

Novaman,
high milk output means lots of blood flowing through the liver which in turn means hormones like estrogen and progesterone get filtered out of her bloodstream at a much faster pace than they do on a low production cow.
Cidr's (I've never used them but I've seen the numbers) work really well on these cows.
Keep in mind that these are the kinds of cows that realy mess with your services per conception so be prepared to have them show up open a few times before they start really showing you much of anything... just keep pounding away... If you are running an average of three services per conception and these are your poor performers, they only have a one in five chance of showing up pregnant when you finally do get a crack at them.
tips:
On syncronized breeding for these cows, breed them at the time of the final shot and then again twelve to sixteen hours later.
On natural heats, try breeding them the first time you see them jump and then every twelve hours until they are OUT of estrus. Not every cow ovulates on the schedule that we are used to seeing.
Use the most extreme DPR bull that you can get your hands on that still has other traits/price that you can swallow... I did this with a BIG herd about ten years ago that had lots of problems and now we are 95% AI and they go to beef if they show up open after eight tries and they have a really low cull rate.

:shock:

 

[angus9259]

First thing it will do is tel you if she has a cyst or if both ovarys are functional. After they've claved once that's the important part about na anestrus cow. 50 years ago we would manually pop the CL and with any luck it woldn;t damage the ovary. Now GnRH will/should do the same thing. I would palpate her ovarys, give her shot of GnRH then palpate the ovarys again in a week. At least then you'll know exactly what you're working with. Or in my case I would send her down the road because I don;t want to deal with possible fertility issues in the offspring

Yeah, this is why nothing's been done. I don't know how to palpate that stuff myself, the vet just made her rounds our here, and with the price of cull, if gnrh ain't gettin' it done, then whatever else it may be is probably too costly or time consuming to deal with. I have the bull running with them now for 30 days. If she catches, she stays - if not, she goes.

 

[cow pollinater]

Thanks for the tips pollinator. I think I might try CIDR's and see what happens. Do you give GnRH at day 9 and watch for heats or TAI on day 10?

TAI! breed them when you give the shot and then again the next day if you have enough bull power to do it. Those hard do-ers have to milk for a while sometimes before we can see any real heat and time is money so sync them and breed them as fast as you can and don't look back. Just make sure it's to a bull that will improve daughter fertility so that you don't wind up in the same place in a few years.
Watch them close from about day 21-31 and breed them if they even sniff another cow... that might be the only hint that you get that they're in heat. If you're wrong, they still have a good chance of keeping the calf if they're already bred from the TAI.
Just don't get frustrated, remember that every time you breed these kinds of cows there is only about a 25% chance that they'll stick so assume they're open until you have a solid reason to think they're not.