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Ajax calves

hurleyjd

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I bred thirty one Red Angus to a Jersey bull. I have fifteen calves on the ground now. I am really happy with the conformation of the calves. Smooth straight toplines and are growing as fast as some purebred Red Angus calves that I have. Plan to keep the ajax heifers for mother cows. Will be about two years before I can see the results of the cross. What would be a good bull to put on the ajax heifers in the future. I am thinking maybe a milking shorthorn.
 

donnaIL

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Do you have any pictures? Were the RA heifers? I'm guessing you were wanting to improve milk? Will the ajax heifers be smaller sized? Just curious. Good Luck Donna
 

curtis

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Interesting cross, can you post pics. of the calves?
 

dun

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What did you hope to accomplish with this particular cross?
 

Howdyjabo

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Why?
There are meat breed out there with established genetics, to raise any quality you are looking for- without having any backlashes.
You are trying to reinvent the the wheel- and it was already done over 100 yrs ago.

You do realize that you started with a cow that could have had a calf that sold for $1 or more and now she is having a calf that is going to sell for .60 or less. Wait the conformation you are so happy with now will change.
I see those crosses all the time- but its usually from someone trying to upgrade a dairy animals calf instead of downgrading a beef animals calf. I've seen third generation crosses and the Jersey in them still glows and they still sell cheap.
 

regolith

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Crossing back to milking shorthorn?

I'd say they're aiming for a dairy cow.
 

HUS

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Howdyjabo":gcm2vpj5 said:
Why?
There are meat breed out there with established genetics, to raise any quality you are looking for- without having any backlashes.
You are trying to reinvent the the wheel- and it was already done over 100 yrs ago.

You do realize that you started with a cow that could have had a calf that sold for $1 or more and now she is having a calf that is going to sell for .60 or less. Wait the conformation you are so happy with now will change.
I see those crosses all the time- but its usually from someone trying to upgrade a dairy animals calf instead of downgrading a beef animals calf. I've seen third generation crosses and the Jersey in them still glows and they still sell cheap.


Well said Howdyjabo........

While I've eaten this particular cross of beef; it is not something that appears to be cost or time effective.

Too many other crosses of traditional beef cattle to choose from that have proven results.
 

bigbull338

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congrats on liking the new calves that are hitting the ground.alot of people here are breeding their heifers to jersey or jersey X angus bulls.an keeping that cross to raise for cows.
 

Lammie

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I know a guy whose wife has registered Jerseys as a hobby. I don't know what she does with them. Mike started figuring out that her Jersey bull was shooting blanks and bred them to his Angus bull. He says they aren't bad to eat. I haven't seen them. I haven't' heard him say anything about them in some time.
 

alacattleman

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Howdyjabo":pgktwwni said:
Why?
There are meat breed out there with established genetics, to raise any quality you are looking for- without having any backlashes.
You are trying to reinvent the the wheel- and it was already done over 100 yrs ago.
You do realize that you started with a cow that could have had a calf that sold for $1 or more and now she is having a calf that is going to sell for .60 or less. Wait the conformation you are so happy with now will change.
I see those crosses all the time- but its usually from someone trying to upgrade a dairy animals calf instead of downgrading a beef animals calf. I've seen third generation crosses and the Jersey in them still glows and they still sell cheap.
sounds more like reinvent... then smashing the whole works with a hammer
 

Howdyjabo

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Who missed what?

"Plan to keep the ajax heifers for mother cows."
 

dun

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Keren":2pkgox6s said:
regolith":2pkgox6s said:
Crossing back to milking shorthorn?

I'd say they're aiming for a dairy cow.

Yep, thats what I figured. Seems like most people missed that point

Just curious what was hoped to be accomplished and what the hopes are for the next generation
 

Jalopy

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You are trying to reinvent the the wheel- and it was already done over 100 yrs ago.

If the two breed had not evolved some in the last 100 years you might have been right but I believe each of the breeds have changed and crossing pure lines from these breeds will give a big change from their parent stock or what may have been realized a century ago. As we all know it can be hit and miss when you have such a diverse cross but if the breeder has a specific goal for the cross it is well worth the risk. It seems that at this first stage Hurley is pleased with the outcome so I hope the calves continue to perform as he wishes. Good luck
 

hurleyjd

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The reason: Several years ago I read a report form some experiment station in Arkansas and they said that the Jersey Angus cross when bred back to a beef bull had the best weaning weights of any of the crosses in the test. I have not been able to find the results of the test. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel only trying for the first F1 cross for some mother cows, I am to darn old to invent another breed. The cross calves are actual growing faster than the pure bred angus. I think the ability of a mother cow to give milk influnces the weaning weight more than the breed. I have raised some pretty heavy crossbred calves from some straight bred Jersey cows. They brought as much in the sale as any of the other calves. My hope is that the heifer offspring will be able to do this. Now you guys may have better angus than I have. I know in years past when we run a diary we would steer some Jersey calves and they were our beef. Not as much fat but just about right for us. Now I may not be a great judge of steak like some of you seem ro refer but that is the way it is.
 

Howdyjabo

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What you are not factoring in --
The drop in value of the cull cows
The problems with overmilking- too much for the cows udder(mastitis) and some calves will scour- or the bag will get so engorged the calves can't drink.
Increased nutritional requirements of the cow
Longevity of the cow (older Dairy cow udders get big and droopy- so calves have a hard time getting going on some)
Carrying ability of the cow(less fat,mass= less to draw down on during hard times)
Rebreeding issues- as cows don't rebreed as well if they get drawed down too much or not fed enough= and you have increased both possibilities.

And Around here you will get hit hard when selling a calf with jersey in it. I have one right now that is actually a pretty good looking calf- but you can still see the Jersey influence and it went for .30 less than other calves of equal weight and frame.

When you increase one extreme good trait(ie milk production) you will loose other useful traits. More of a good thing is RARELY better unless thats ALL that you need.
Thats why Dairy breeds are dairy breeds- they produce the most milk for the inputs
And Thats why beef breeds are beef breeds- they produce the most beef for the inputs.
 

hurleyjd

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Howdyjabo":mvfsfgzk said:
What you are not factoring in --
The drop in value of the cull cows
The problems with overmilking- too much for the cows udder(mastitis) and some calves will scour- or the bag will get so engorged the calves can't drink.
Increased nutritional requirements of the cow
Longevity of the cow (older Dairy cow udders get big and droopy- so calves have a hard time getting going on some)
Carrying ability of the cow(less fat,mass= less to draw down on during hard times)
Rebreeding issues- as cows don't rebreed as well if they get drawed down too much or not fed enough= and you have increased both possibilities.

And Around here you will get hit hard when selling a calf with jersey in it. I have one right now that is actually a pretty good looking calf- but you can still see the Jersey influence and it went for .30 less than other calves of equal weight and frame.

When you increase one extreme good trait(ie milk production) you will loose other useful traits. More of a good thing is RARELY better unless thats ALL that you need.
Thats why Dairy breeds are dairy breeds- they produce the most milk for the inputs
And Thats why beef breeds are beef breeds- they produce the most beef for the inputs.

I had one Jersey cow that I raised after quiting the diary. She was 14 years old when I sold her and she had rasied a calf every year. Calved about every 11 months. She weighd 800 lbs and weaned caalves nearly the same as her weight. Sure would like to have a herd all ike her. I am not a novice on cows. I have had cows for over 54 years. I do know some things about udders on cows. You cannot lump all udders together and say that the older they get they will go bad. Matistis is not caused by a udder staying to full to long. It is caused by infections from the cows surroundings. I have seen as many udders go bad on beef cows as I have diary cows. I have three purebred Red Angus that will be culled because of brokedown udders. This is their second calve. These cows came from a reputable Red Angus Breeder. An udder that will break down has been about bred out of the diary breeds but is still around in the beef breeds. I will have to wait and see how mine turn out as anyone that keeps a heifer calf for replacement has to do. Some of the best genetics have duds every now and then, you do not hear about them because the breeders do not talk about them.
 

Keren

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oookaay, if you are wanting to breed them back to a beef bull, WHY ON EARTH would you choose MILKING SHORTHORN??

hurleyjd":3hcw4f7f said:
An udder that will break down has been about bred out of the diary breeds but is still around in the beef breeds.

I seriously doubt that. There are plenty of cows out there that commercial dairies are trying to flog off as nurse cows, because their udders have broken down and thus they dont want them at the dairy anymore.
 

Frankie

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hurleyjd":2830ewd6 said:
I bred thirty one Red Angus to a Jersey bull. I have fifteen calves on the ground now. I am really happy with the conformation of the calves. Smooth straight toplines and are growing as fast as some purebred Red Angus calves that I have. Plan to keep the ajax heifers for mother cows. Will be about two years before I can see the results of the cross. What would be a good bull to put on the ajax heifers in the future. I am thinking maybe a milking shorthorn.

They're yours and you've bred them the way you want. To answer your question, if I had RedAngus X Jeresy cross cows, I'd use a bull from a breed that allows you to identify the calves as sired by a specific breed bull. Angus has the AngusSource tag. Red Angus and Gelbvieh both have an ear tag that identifes the calves as half bloods and there may be other breeds that have similar programs. At least the buyers will know half the genetic make up of the calf. For heifers, I'd suggest an Angus bull with a high calving ease EPD or a low birthweight EPD.

And, yes, crossbred calves will often outgrow purebred calves. It's called heterosis. I wouldn't count on it to continue as the calves get bigger.
 

alacattleman

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Frankie":34i05znx said:
hurleyjd":34i05znx said:
I bred thirty one Red Angus to a Jersey bull. I have fifteen calves on the ground now. I am really happy with the conformation of the calves. Smooth straight toplines and are growing as fast as some purebred Red Angus calves that I have. Plan to keep the ajax heifers for mother cows. Will be about two years before I can see the results of the cross. What would be a good bull to put on the ajax heifers in the future. I am thinking maybe a milking shorthorn.

They're yours and you've bred them the way you want. To answer your question, if I had RedAngus X Jeresy cross cows, I'd use a bull from a breed that allows you to identify the calves as sired by a specific breed bull. Angus has the AngusSource tag. Red Angus and Gelbvieh both have an ear tag that identifes the calves as half bloods and there may be other breeds that have similar programs. At least the buyers will know half the genetic make up of the calf. For heifers, I'd suggest an Angus bull with a high calving ease EPD or a low birthweight EPD.

And, yes, crossbred calves will often outgrow purebred calves. It's called heterosis. I wouldn't count on it to continue as the calves get bigger.
i wonder how much though, since they dropped one beef breed out of the mix?
 

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