AI vs herd bull

[Calhoun Farm]

If you had a small herd would you bother buying a bull or just use AI? I've already bought the bull and wondering if I made a mistake doing so. I looked on bullbarn website and just to get started in AI looks expensive for the intial investment (equipment/tanks etc) not to mention the fact that I would have to sync the cows before I could AI. What is the cost of getting into AI? I was thinking around $1000... :???:

For those that AI is it worth the extra time investment for you to be the "bull" as opposed to having an actual bull and letting him do the work of knowing when one is in heat/breeding etc.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Better keep the bull till you get to where you can get a cow bred. I breed on natural heats.

 

[TexasBred]

If you had a small herd would you bother buying a bull or just use AI? I've already bought the bull and wondering if I made a mistake doing so. I looked on bullbarn website and just to get started in AI looks expensive for the intial investment (equipment/tanks etc) not to mention the fact that I would have to sync the cows before I could AI. What is the cost of getting into AI? I was thinking around $1000... :???:

For those that AI is it worth the extra time investment for you to be the "bull" as opposed to having an actual bull and letting him do the work of knowing when one is in heat/breeding etc.

I prefer to AI but unless the market just goes completely to he77 you'll always make money on a bull as long as he can get along on grass and put on weight.

 

[cowgirl_jenna]

We ai a lot, but we still keep bulls for clean-up work. Some do AI 100%, and we do at our dairy farm, but for our beef it works better to have a bull also to keep our calving window closer. I'd recommend learning to ai, but maybe at first hire a tech or neighbor that does it and see how it goes.? AI does not cost all that much (it pays really) but it does take time and patience. Let the bull do his job this year, and do a little research and try ai'ing some next year I'd say. Also, you'll get a lot if not all your money out of the bull when you sell him (depending what you paid of course)

 

[3waycross]

We ai a lot, but we still keep bulls for clean-up work. Some do AI 100%, and we do at our dairy farm, but for our beef it works better to have a bull also to keep our calving window closer. I'd recommend learning to ai, but maybe at first hire a tech or neighbor that does it and see how it goes.? AI does not cost all that much (it pays really) but it does take time and patience. Let the bull do his job this year, and do a little research and try ai'ing some next year I'd say. Also, you'll get a lot if not all your money out of the bull when you sell him (depending what you paid of course)

Good post!

 

[denvermartinfarms]

At this point stay with a bull, learn about and how to AI as you can. But for now you didn't go wrong.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

We strictly AI, and are currently running around 20 cows. Initial investment is no higher than a bull. Class to learn AI was $300, tank was $300, and the AI kit was a couple hundred. All of us AI now, so easy to get it done.

 

[midtncattle]

Fire sweep,
Could you walk me through your process. I would like to go straight ai as well. I would think one might do timed ai, then hit those that come back in on next heat. How hard s it to keep calving dates close together?

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Fire sweep,
Could you walk me through your process. I would like to go straight ai as well. I would think one might do timed ai, then hit those that come back in on next heat. How hard s it to keep calving dates close together?

If you sinc, it is not hard at all. We usually get them stuck by the second AI attempt, and if not we will put an embryo in the third cycle. They almost always stick to that. If not, they are gone. Now, ours are more spread out because we want calves in different divisions at shows. Most of our fall calves are due in Sept and October this year (mid September is the first group, first of October is the second), with one cow due on Christmas because we flushed her and had problems getting her bred back. Our Spring calves are all over, with a handful due in every month including May. We sell several Spring calves for show calves, and like to get them in different classes that way. It is not so good when three of your calves are competing against each other all year, so we spread them out.
Hope that helps.

 

[midtncattle]

Thanks fire sweep. I had a good thing going. I had first calf first week of February and last calf end of march. On May 4 I had everything ai'd that was past 55 days. Then turned in a bull. Thought I was on the move. 3 weeks ago I noticed bull working cow for 3rd time based on my records. Had him checked and he was bad. Now I am of on a messed up time frame. I will need to back the late breeders up as much as possible and think the best way to do it will be natural service. I am afraid if I wait to do timed ai I may not get them moved back any.

 

[Kscattle]

I think cowgirl-Jenna hit the nail on the head but I wanted to add a little to her post. The AI class will teach you a lot more than to simply breed a cow, you'll learn about cows from the inside to the outside. With a little practice you can preg check your own cows, breed, and understand what's going on in there to make a calf. If you normally hire a vet to preg check and you can do it yourself then there's some savings. If you don't normally preg check then you will want to after your class just to see if you can

 

[angus9259]

Fire sweep,
Could you walk me through your process. I would like to go straight ai as well. I would think one might do timed ai, then hit those that come back in on next heat. How hard s it to keep calving dates close together?

If you sinc, it is not hard at all. We usually get them stuck by the second AI attempt, and if not we will put an embryo in the third cycle. They almost always stick to that. If not, they are gone.

FSR is certainly more talented than I am at it. A couple points.

1. are you prepared to get rid of anything that won't ai?
2. are you prepared to have them spread out?

My experience after 10 years is that you gotta be 100% on your game to get everyone bred and/or not have a spread out calving cycle - and that's for someone with experience.

My vote - get the bull and tinker with ai till you get the hang of it then decide for yourself. Can't tell you how many folks with 10 cows come looking for a bull after the 3rd attempt at ai and only have 25% bred.

 

[Dega Moo]

I'm not sure your choices are strictly between a natural service bull and buying the equipment and all the expendables needed to synch and AI your cows. You might want to contact Genex or ABS and speak to a local rep who may be able to help you locate a technician willing to assist for a reasonable fee. Your local rep may even assist. In any case you can avoid the immediate upfront cost of purchasing the equipment and tanks. You buy the straws, CDIRS and drugs for the protocol you choose with the techs assistance. The tech or genetic rep would probably be a great help choosing sire(s). You should be able to find your local reps searching the internet.

I know in my area there are several Amish dairies who as far as I know are 100% AI. At least one of them contracts out his service.

Outside of adding those points, I think you've gotten very sound advice.

 

[AllForage]

If you had a small herd would you bother buying a bull or just use AI? I've already bought the bull and wondering if I made a mistake doing so. I looked on bullbarn website and just to get started in AI looks expensive for the intial investment (equipment/tanks etc) not to mention the fact that I would have to sync the cows before I could AI. What is the cost of getting into AI? I was thinking around $1000... :???:

For those that AI is it worth the extra time investment for you to be the "bull" as opposed to having an actual bull and letting him do the work of knowing when one is in heat/breeding etc.

What are your herd goals and marketing plan? What Type of cows doe you want to produce? For some things AI is not an option.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

I'm not sure your choices are strictly between a natural service bull and buying the equipment and all the expendables needed to synch and AI your cows. You might want to contact Genex or ABS and speak to a local rep who may be able to help you locate a technician willing to assist for a reasonable fee. Your local rep may even assist. In any case you can avoid the immediate upfront cost of purchasing the equipment and tanks. You buy the straws, CDIRS and drugs for the protocol you choose with the techs assistance. The tech or genetic rep would probably be a great help choosing sire(s). You should be able to find your local reps searching the internet.

I know in my area there are several Amish dairies who as far as I know are 100% AI. At least one of them contracts out his service.

Outside of adding those points, I think you've gotten very sound advice.

On that note, we just had a beef tour, and Genex was there. They estimated the cost to be around $40 a cow to have them come up and set up your cows and AI. That is pretty reasonable if you ask me! Of course, if you chose expensive semen that cost goes up, but that cost is based on $25 semen. They bring "the box", which is a breeding box that is pretty cool. Our extension rents a box also, and we used it once to try it. It was very easy, and no need to lock cows heads in. And in the dark, which kept the cows calm.

 

[Calhoun Farm]

If you had a small herd would you bother buying a bull or just use AI? I've already bought the bull and wondering if I made a mistake doing so. I looked on bullbarn website and just to get started in AI looks expensive for the intial investment (equipment/tanks etc) not to mention the fact that I would have to sync the cows before I could AI. What is the cost of getting into AI? I was thinking around $1000... :???:

For those that AI is it worth the extra time investment for you to be the "bull" as opposed to having an actual bull and letting him do the work of knowing when one is in heat/breeding etc.

What are your herd goals and marketing plan? What Type of cows doe you want to produce? For some things AI is not an option.

Well I'm kind of in a odd situation, me and my dad take care of the farm but he has 6 black angus cows and I have 3 black angus heifers and 1 black baldie heifer along with a 10month old reg bull. At this point I just want to grow my herd. All my dad's cows are bred by a bull we no longer have and he wants to keep the 6 cows until they have there calves and when the calves are weined he's going to sell the heifers and all the cows, make the bulls steers and then use what money he makes to buy more young bulls/steers and finish them out. Our goals are very different, he wants to get out of the "herd" per say and raise steers. I want to expand my herd with cows/calves.

 

[novatech]

With the proper selection of the right bull (semen) one can justify the use if AI because of the extra weight gain on the steers. When AI'ing for herd improvement there is no faster way. I would still keep the bull for cleanup.
Using AI, a cleanup bull and discipline in culling ones herd fertility will improve.

 

[Bigfoot]

Just my 2 cents. No more cows than you are talking about, I would let a tech come out. If you really want to grow your herd, select for maternal bulls, and hope for heifers.

 

[lacangus]

If you had a small herd would you bother buying a bull or just use AI? I've already bought the bull and wondering if I made a mistake doing so. I looked on bullbarn website and just to get started in AI looks expensive for the intial investment (equipment/tanks etc) not to mention the fact that I would have to sync the cows before I could AI. What is the cost of getting into AI? I was thinking around $1000... :???:

For those that AI is it worth the extra time investment for you to be the "bull" as opposed to having an actual bull and letting him do the work of knowing when one is in heat/breeding etc.

A.I. If you had 5 cows you could breed to five different bulls, 5 different breeds. whatever you like. Breed off of natural heat. Its cheaper and more accurate. The quality of bulls are so much better unless your willing to spend a lot of money on a bull.