After needling, how much swelling is normal???

[Yannie]

We have 3 show steers penned together, next to two pens, each with 3 heifers in them. During the past week or so, we noticed that the 3 steers were going off feed, but we thought that it was simply because of the major fluctuations in the weather of late. The 6 heifer's feed intake didn't fluctuate at all though, so we began to consider other problems that the steers might be experiencing. After temping them, and having someone look at them, we decided that it was probably a minor case of pneumonia, so we needled them were Oxymycine LA. We ran the three steers through, and put about 16CC's in each side of their necks. 2 of the steers seem fine, but our little show steer has a large amount of swelling on only ONE side of his neck, that is beginning to break open a little bit. We're out at college (calves are here for a Club Calf project), and were wondering if that is a normal occurrence following needling, or if there's anything that we can do...we were told that it might form scar tissue , which would be horrible, b/c he was an expensive calf to buy, and the lump wouldn't go over very well in a show ring...
PLEASE HELP!!!!
Thank you.

 

[1848]

The lump can be a normal side affect with injections. Some won't get it. Some will get a little lump, and others will get a baseball size knot. Most of these will eventually subside with time. The good thing is that it shows you are giving the shots in the prefered location, and not ruining the rump! Nothing is worse than cutting away several pounds of scare tissue, or shot lessions from the round! This is a steer. You should be proud you did not ruin his carcass. Just remember, and record the withdrawal times for slaughter after injections. Cattle at sale barns with these marks on their necks don't see as much reduction as you think because a smart buyer knows this is a sign that the carcass has been taken care of, and injections were placed properly or in conjunction with quality beef guidelines. I would hope that a good steer judge would have the sense to know this and not hold this against the animal in the show ring. As far as them coming off feed, make sure you are providing the steers with probias. Some hotter feeds will cause them to loose these microrganisms after time, and their appetite will go with it.

 

[1848]

One more thing! Try to give only 10cc's at a time in any given site, and each site can still be just a few inches apart. This will help reduce the potential for this type swelling. Make sure the IM shots are in the deep muscle and not just in the "twitch" muscle....

 

[TheBullLady]

LA200 is horrible for leaving "lumps". Unfortunately they take awhile to go away as well. I have a heifer with her first calf in the yard that got an infection after calving. We gave her big doses (10 cc each site) 6 weeks ago, and she still has lumps on her neck.

 

[Bez]

OK, it is question time from this guy.

I hear lots about lumps after giving a needle. We run a fair number of animals, and regularly "shoot them up" in our program - to the tune of at least once a year for all and twice a year for some.

Along with that we have the usual doctoring and such that goes on - as in any other place.

Here is the question:

Why do we never - repeat never - get these lumps everyone seems to know about? I hope I have not just jinxed myself!

Lots of years in the business and probably gallons of "stuff" through needles of various diametres and lengths and never have I seen one of these lumps. Even when we "go off label" on the veterinarians reccommendations.

Breed? Climate? Needling style? Size of needle? Location is always in the neck for us. Etc., etc.

Just curious - any ideas?

Bez

 

[Yannie]

Thank you for the repy BullLady. Wow, 6 weeks ago and there are still lumps on her neck!! I really hope ours doesn't last that long. I don't suppose that there is any way to speed that up is there...??? Do you know if show calves would be faulted for having a lump there??

 

[Yannie]

Well Bez, I really couldn't tell you, because we'd never had much trouble with "lumps" following needling either. Until now, and as far as we knew, we had done everything right. Tried to split the meds into smaller doses to avoid the formation of lumps, but to no avail I guess. We used a 20 gauge needle, I believe, location was the neck...he thought that he did it "textbook style". The one with the lump is a Chi-Maine, and the other two were "roan"?-angus crosses...so who knows why it affected the one, but not the other two.
Just a bit of bad luck for us and the steer I guess.

 

[Yannie]

I guess our concern is that even if a "good steer judge" did understand the reasoning behind the lump, would our steer still be faulted for being less "showy" than a steer above him?
Is it possible that a lack of probias (could you explain what that is??) could be present for the steers, but not for any of the heifers? We call the heifers "trough monkeys" b/c they're always so eager for feed, but it just seems that the steers practically need to be led over there and spoon fed half the time.
We're really at quite a loss as to what to try next to increase their feeding...any ideas you have would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks again.

 

[dun]

OK, it is question time from this guy.

I hear lots about lumps after giving a needle. We run a fair number of animals, and regularly "shoot them up" in our program - to the tune of at least once a year for all and twice a year for some.

Along with that we have the usual doctoring and such that goes on - as in any other place.

Here is the question:

Why do we never - repeat never - get these lumps everyone seems to know about? I hope I have not just jinxed myself!

Lots of years in the business and probably gallons of "stuff" through needles of various diametres and lengths and never have I seen one of these lumps. Even when we "go off label" on the veterinarians reccommendations.

Breed? Climate? Needling style? Size of needle? Location is always in the neck for us. Etc., etc.

Just curious - any ideas?

Bez

I really thinnk sometimes that it's in the genes. One cow gets a lump from just about anything including vaccinations, her callves do the same. She's the only one that does, even her half siter has never had a lump.

dun

 

[Linda]

I think, with all other factors being equal, it boils down to some animals being more sensitive to some medications that are others - just like people. I've only had one cow come up with a neck lump after injecting LA 200, and that was about 8 years ago. But, ours is a closed herd and we don't use antibiotics very often. I hadn't even noticed the lump, but the vet found it when preg checking about a month later. He did tell me LA 200 is a very irritating medication to tissue & lumps after injecting the med aren't unusual. My only suggestion is to talk to the vet about using a different antibiotic if something like this should come up again.

 

[Medic24]

As I posted several weeks ago, we too have just one cow that lumps up after any type of needle work, she gets abcessed, and we have to come back and drain them and inject penicillen behind it, that usually clears them up. You may want to check to see if it is abcessed or not, if it is, you can speed reduction and healing by carefull draining, and penicillen therapy. :cboy:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Lumps are caused by different factors. Some from poor injections, some from an allergic reaction, and some is from the "carrier" in the product that irratates the tissues.
So injection proceedure makes a difference, and individual cattle reactons because of sensitivity & allergy reactions.

As far as the show steer. Have the vet check to see if it is infected, if so, it can be lanced &/or drained.

A lump on the neck should not affect his placings in a show - unless there are absolutely two identical quality animals, than the judge might use that as a reason to place him behind his equal. But, (there's always a but) it depends on the judge like all shows. You never know. By show time, it should be reduced in size, and may not show under all the "fluff" of hair. If you have good hair, you may be able to cover it up with blocking the hair.

 

[1848]

I guess our concern is that even if a "good steer judge" did understand the reasoning behind the lump, would our steer still be faulted for being less "showy" than a steer above him?
Is it possible that a lack of probias (could you explain what that is??) could be present for the steers, but not for any of the heifers? We call the heifers "trough monkeys" b/c they're always so eager for feed, but it just seems that the steers practically need to be led over there and spoon fed half the time.
We're really at quite a loss as to what to try next to increase their feeding...any ideas you have would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks again.

Sorry it took so long to reply. I went to bed...

Probias comes in a paste or powder, and should be available at any good vet or feed supply. Most animals on heavy feed need probias to keep the rumen functioning properly. Some feeds increase the temperature of the gut, and cause the bacteria in the rumen to die off. Probias gives a beneficial bacteria that all ruminants need for their rumen to function properly. It helps replace what is lost. Use in cases of stress and illness. The loss of the bacteria can causes scours and loss of appetite too.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Probias is actually a brand name. There are many companies that put out a product for this use. You need to ask for a product with Lactobacillus in it. Also, I highly recommend feeding yeast in your feed ration. You may already have it mixed in your feed, but I would double check on it.

Are you limit feeding the heifers & giving the steers all they will eat?? If so, I would back off on the amount you are feeding the steers. Get them a little hungry. Also, good grass hay is needed to keep their stomach working properly. I would be offering them all they will eat twice a day. Not like the old days when you wanted them "sucked up" with no gut showing and lots of legs.

 

[Yannie]

Currently the three steers can't even finish off 3/4 of a 5-gallon pail of show ration, while both pens of heifers are now consuming a whole pail to each pen. So the steers SHOULD definitely be hungry. We also provide them with grass hay, and they are fed twice a day. We definitely want them gaining, but the steers just seem to have lost their appetite...I guess we can check into the yeast and probias thing. Hopefully that helps!

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Thank you for the repy BullLady. Wow, 6 weeks ago and there are still lumps on her neck!! I really hope ours doesn't last that long. I don't suppose that there is any way to speed that up is there...??? Do you know if show calves would be faulted for having a lump there??

Often times it is because of a dull needle,should go down over time. :cboy:

 

[Farmhand]

My experience with lumps have been caused by dull needles and/or dirty injection sites. Hair, dirt gets dragged into the injection site by the needle. Unfortunately I have never seen a lump totally go away. It may reduce in size but will still be there. Also judges usually pick up on it and takes it into consideration for placing. Definetely do your best to hide it. The feed thing is worth a call to your vet.

 

[Rookie]

Also, I highly recommend feeding yeast in your feed ration. You may already have it mixed in your feed, but I would double check on it.

Jeanne - do you mean the kind of packaged yeast my wife bakes bread with? What would be the proper dosage per hundred lbs of bodyweight to feed ? Any worry about bloating with this?

george

 

[jerry27150]

some dairy farmers started feeding baking soda in the feed to counteract the acidosis of high grain feeding, some say it works better than yeast. not the same as bread

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jeanne - do you mean the kind of packaged yeast my wife bakes bread with? What would be the proper dosage per hundred lbs of bodyweight to feed ? Any worry about bloating with this?

george

No No - this is mixed into the feed at the feedmill. I looked up one of our rations and it had 9 pounds of Diamond XP yeast in a ton of feed.