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<blockquote data-quote="elkwc" data-source="post: 1129260" data-attributes="member: 22295"><p>Jake that is where I make my own judgement after I view a herd and the management policies of the breeder. A calf born and grown in a grass and cake situation during the drought the last few years is likely going to be a little lighter than a similar calf raised during a normal year which we haven't seen in six years. Another factor that isn't noted on any EPD's and few if any information about a calf is if there were creep fed. I thought creep feeders were relics. But to my surprise when I visited a breeder recently who listed high WW's there were calves eating in a creep feeder. I've looked at several EPD's of calves from this breeder and not one mentioned they were creep fed. I know breeders who grow/develop their bulls and try to limit gain to around 2.5 lbs per day. Although the cattle have genetics to gain much more they feel they will be more sound and have more longevity. So when I look at their cattle I take that into consideration. Instead of seeing high WWs and YW ratios they are lower but their calves will gain as well or better than those whose sire was pushed and the bull will likely be more productive for a longer time. None of this is accounted for. I don't feel that you can accurately account for environmental differences between years and geographic locations. Give me the actual weights, tell me how you develop them and I'll make the decision on which animal will be the most productive for me. After I mentioned seeing the creep feeder I was told several breeders still use them. So again numbers are only as good as the information being put in to develop them. We each have a difference in opinions about how much value to give to EPD'S, DNA testing, ect. I know one commercial Angus breeder who is selecting his replacement heifers strictly from the DNA/genomic test. He stated he doesn't look at their structure, conformation, ect. Personally I would never do that. But it is his money and his cattle so he can select them how he desires. Doesn't mean I have to agree with him.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="elkwc, post: 1129260, member: 22295"] Jake that is where I make my own judgement after I view a herd and the management policies of the breeder. A calf born and grown in a grass and cake situation during the drought the last few years is likely going to be a little lighter than a similar calf raised during a normal year which we haven't seen in six years. Another factor that isn't noted on any EPD's and few if any information about a calf is if there were creep fed. I thought creep feeders were relics. But to my surprise when I visited a breeder recently who listed high WW's there were calves eating in a creep feeder. I've looked at several EPD's of calves from this breeder and not one mentioned they were creep fed. I know breeders who grow/develop their bulls and try to limit gain to around 2.5 lbs per day. Although the cattle have genetics to gain much more they feel they will be more sound and have more longevity. So when I look at their cattle I take that into consideration. Instead of seeing high WWs and YW ratios they are lower but their calves will gain as well or better than those whose sire was pushed and the bull will likely be more productive for a longer time. None of this is accounted for. I don't feel that you can accurately account for environmental differences between years and geographic locations. Give me the actual weights, tell me how you develop them and I'll make the decision on which animal will be the most productive for me. After I mentioned seeing the creep feeder I was told several breeders still use them. So again numbers are only as good as the information being put in to develop them. We each have a difference in opinions about how much value to give to EPD'S, DNA testing, ect. I know one commercial Angus breeder who is selecting his replacement heifers strictly from the DNA/genomic test. He stated he doesn't look at their structure, conformation, ect. Personally I would never do that. But it is his money and his cattle so he can select them how he desires. Doesn't mean I have to agree with him. [/QUOTE]
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