A month early, Aborted

[Ouachita]

I know my breeding time is not the most desireable, but circumstances dictated that I sync the herd, so I waited until all were open. My best time for doing that was last August. I put a registered black bull on them then. Didn't expect calves till next month. Came home today, and one of my favorite old cows was standing over a dead calf. Calf was perfectly formed in every way that I could describe. Just small, about 40 pounds I estimate. And 4-5 weeks early from the date she first bred. Her bag was full this evening. It wasn't Monday evening (2 evenings ago), cause I checked them all over good. She is an older cow (probably 12-15 years), and has never had a problem. Has always been one I've never worried about. Any ideas on what could/would cause this? Cow seems fine. She gaurded her dead baby for a long time before I was able to get to it. After I moved it, she went on. Calf looked perfect except for being small. Had mommas markings, and daddys color (black with a white horseshoe on the head )

 

[piedmontese]

if shes a good cow that u wanna keep put a baby on her.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I would think twice about bringing in a calf from another farm (totally different bugs even if calf is super healthy). You have the health of the next newborns to consider. Do you vaccinate for repro diseases - like Lepto, BVD, IBR?
Any chance there was a twin calf born dead somewhere - or still in her? Very common to calve month early with dead twins.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would think twice about bringing in a calf from another farm (totally different bugs even if calf is super healthy). You have the health of the next newborns to consider. Do you vaccinate for repro diseases - like Lepto, BVD, IBR?
Any chance there was a twin calf born dead somewhere - or still in her? Very common to calve month early with dead twins.

Twins can be a problem had it happen as you discribe.
There is a ton of things to make her abort from getting kicked to a whole host of diseases.
Don't discount food source's as well.

 

[Ouachita]

if shes a good cow that u wanna keep put a baby on her.

I have a friend who works at weekly Thursday sale about an hour north of me. And he's also a well known and respected man. I called him early this morning and let him know the situation, and is acting agent for me, looking for baby.
Momma cow bawled all night, and went back to the spot she calved. So, hopefully, I'll get a call after my buddy get off work later tonight, and I'll have a baby to put on her. Since he works there, he knows what he needs to pick out a good one. I took some 6wt calve to the sale a couple weeks ago and they did great, but I was shocked at what the orphans sold for. I figure it might cost me $250-350, cause he won't buy just anything.
Thanks for your advise. Time will tell

 

[Ouachita]

I would think twice about bringing in a calf from another farm (totally different bugs even if calf is super healthy). You have the health of the next newborns to consider. Do you vaccinate for repro diseases - like Lepto, BVD, IBR?
Any chance there was a twin calf born dead somewhere - or still in her? Very common to calve month early with dead twins.

I did think twice, but as stated in my previous post..........

They were all vaccinated when I bought this herd (Dad's herd), in July 2010. We vaccinated again in September 2011, about a month after we put the new bull in with them. I'm disgusted because I can't find my Big Chief tablet with the meds we used, and I've slept since then, and it's been a busy week for me (new grandbaby and all ). But I do remember we gave them everything my buddy recommended (same buddy helping me find a baby to put on this ole gal), and I do remember lepto, and there were some other things with abbreviations I cant remember, and black leg........ Dam the Big Chief tablet:lol:

This cow is one of a herd that I bought from my stepmother, after Dad died. I bought his cattle in June 2010. There was another cow in this herd that had aborted twins, about 2 months after I bought the herd. We sold her. But the calves were about the same size as this one that I've described.

Momma cow still has some afterbirth stringy shyt hangin out, but now is grazing with the others and seems fine. Plan on bringing her in tomorrow and tying a weighted milk jug to it an help it out. Any comment or advice will be well received.

 

[Ouachita]

I would think twice about bringing in a calf from another farm (totally different bugs even if calf is super healthy). You have the health of the next newborns to consider. Do you vaccinate for repro diseases - like Lepto, BVD, IBR?
Any chance there was a twin calf born dead somewhere - or still in her? Very common to calve month early with dead twins.

Twins can be a problem had it happen as you discribe.
There is a ton of things to make her abort from getting kicked to a whole host of diseases.
Don't discount food source's as well.

The ground was tore up quite a bit where she had the calf, but she was running off the other cows, and maybe yotes. We have them close every night, and maybe during the day (past couple days we've been with new grandbaby at hospital). I kinduv assumed the ground work was just her doings in the hour or two before I saw the dead calf. Maybe not???
On the food source idea........... They have still been grazing the same thing they have been all winter (ryegrass and wheat), plus a little clover and very little bermuda that has just started. But I did change tubs and mineral about 3 weeks ago. I was using a Vitalix condition #1, and before it was half gone, I put out a PVM IGR (with fly control). I also changed loose minerals. Without my Big Chief tablet I can't remember the brand I had been using, but it was a good all around loose mineral (not trace). The new loose mineral I put out 3 weeks ago is Purina Wind and Rain (also with fly control). They had access and plenty of the old loose mineral left, so as not to be a drastic change. They also have loose salt. The tubs, minerals, and salt are all free choice. I fed my last hay about 4 weeks ago. Even with the new lush forage, I haven't seen any squirts at all. Apples look normal. I did move them from one pasture to another 2 weeks ago (always move the tubs and minerals at the same time). This pasture was seeded with rye and wheat at the same time last August, as the pasture they were in, and has just as much thick lush grass, but is newer ground, so it does have some weeds, and flowers (weeds). Any ideas CB?????

 

[ousoonerfan22]

Do you remember if that calf smelled bad? I had a first calf heifer in feb 2011 that aborted before her bag filled out and that calf smelled bad.She was timid and most of the cows would butt her in the side so I figured that's what happened to the calf.She calved this spring with no problems.

 

[Ouachita]

Do you remember if that calf smelled bad? I had a first calf heifer in feb 2011 that aborted before her bag filled out and that calf smelled bad.She was timid and most of the cows would butt her in the side so I figured that's what happened to the calf.She calved this spring with no problems.

Well, I handled the calf in to the loader bucket, and wife, kids and myself checked the calf out real good. I don't recall any smell at all. Fresh as a newborn calf

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ergot posioning can cause abortion. They usually have other sign's as well.

This worldwide disease of farm animals results from continued ingestion of sclerotia of the parasitic fungus Claviceps purpurea , which replaces the grain or seed of rye and other small grains or forage plants, such as the bromes, bluegrasses, and ryegrasses. The hard, black, elongated sclerotia may contain varying quantities of ergot alkaloids, of which ergotamine and ergonovine (ergometrine) are pharmacologically most important. Cattle, pigs, sheep, and poultry are involved in sporadic outbreaks, and most species are susceptible.

 

[Ouachita]

May be one of those things I never figure out. Lost a calf, gained a heathly grand child. I consider that much more than a fair trade. I'm only posting this so I can gain some information from better educated and more experienced folks, so I might be able to offet a loss in the future. I feel very fortunate, considering my level of experience, that I've had so few problems.
I know I'm doing my best for care of my cattle, but there is a lot I don't know about. When things like this happen, I want to learn everything I can. I haven't found a better place to learn or get information and opinions than this place right here.
When my wife and kids were looking at the calf, my 11 year old son ask me; "How much would that calf have been worth?" I think he's on the right track

 

[Caustic Burno]

Nitrate posioning from the following.

Common plant species associated with nitrate poisoning.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/liv ... 87-016.htm

 

[Ouachita]

Ergot posioning can cause abortion. They usually have other sign's as well.

This worldwide disease of farm animals results from continued ingestion of sclerotia of the parasitic fungus Claviceps purpurea , which replaces the grain or seed of rye and other small grains or forage plants, such as the bromes, bluegrasses, and ryegrasses. The hard, black, elongated sclerotia may contain varying quantities of ergot alkaloids, of which ergotamine and ergonovine (ergometrine) are pharmacologically most important. Cattle, pigs, sheep, and poultry are involved in sporadic outbreaks, and most species are susceptible.

Thanks for the info CB. I just looked up what you have mentioned. Except for her aborting her calf, I can't see where she has any other symptoms of ergot poisoning.
My biggest concern is, my calving season is approaching Iexplained that earlier; I know its not the ideal time for calves to hit ground, but I didn't have much choice). Most are due to calve between 4 and 7 weeks. Maybe some a few weeks later. This happening with one of my good older cows makes me stand at attention, and try to figure this out.
As a side note, I moved the herd yesterday evening as a precaution, in to the hay meadow. I've allready contracted to buy my hay this year, so it's no big deal. I can leave them there until I start getting 3 or 4 healthy calves on the ground.

 

[Ouachita]

Nitrate posioning from the following.

Common plant species associated with nitrate poisoning.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/liv ... 87-016.htm

You may be on to something CB. I need to study up on these things. As I've said before, I'm new to this, so I really appreciate your help. If I have a problem with ergot, or nitrates, I've got a real problem on my hands. I hope this is one of those isolated and unexplainable events, but I'm not taking chances. Thanks

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ergot posioning can cause abortion. They usually have other sign's as well.

This worldwide disease of farm animals results from continued ingestion of sclerotia of the parasitic fungus Claviceps purpurea , which replaces the grain or seed of rye and other small grains or forage plants, such as the bromes, bluegrasses, and ryegrasses. The hard, black, elongated sclerotia may contain varying quantities of ergot alkaloids, of which ergotamine and ergonovine (ergometrine) are pharmacologically most important. Cattle, pigs, sheep, and poultry are involved in sporadic outbreaks, and most species are susceptible.

Thanks for the info CB. I just looked up what you have mentioned. Except for her aborting her calf, I can't see where she has any other symptoms of ergot poisoning.
My biggest concern is, my calving season is approaching Iexplained that earlier; I know its not the ideal time for calves to hit ground, but I didn't have much choice). Most are due to calve between 4 and 7 weeks. Maybe some a few weeks later. This happening with one of my good older cows makes me stand at attention, and try to figure this out.
As a side note, I moved the herd yesterday evening as a precaution, in to the hay meadow. I've allready contracted to buy my hay this year, so it's no big deal. I can leave them there until I start getting 3 or 4 healthy calves on the ground.

Well if you ain't got them can't loose them.
Experience is a tough teacher, she gives the test first then comes the lesson.
Sometime we figure it out sometimes we don't.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I would think twice about bringing in a calf from another farm (totally different bugs even if calf is super healthy). You have the health of the next newborns to consider. Do you vaccinate for repro diseases - like Lepto, BVD, IBR?
Any chance there was a twin calf born dead somewhere - or still in her? Very common to calve month early with dead twins.

Twins can be a problem had it happen as you discribe.
There is a ton of things to make her abort from getting kicked to a whole host of diseases.
Don't discount food source's as well.

Lost two this winter in the same week. :x Had the vet pull blood and afterbirth samples, and then drove them along with the fetuses to NDSU. Lab tests came back fungus, so they got some clover hay mold that they could not handle. Both cows with a little thin from being high for milk, one was quite old, and so I think their condition was a factor.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Sounds like you have been doing your homework & doing a good job caring for your cattle.
Generally, the repro vaccine's come all together - like BoviShield 5L5 is IBR, PI3, BVD, BRSV & 5-way Lepto. So you probably got them covered.
Abortions some time "just happen". If it is an isolated incidence, shouldn't be anything to worry about. But, if you have another, save the afterbirth & calf & have vet do some testing. And you should wear OB gloves when handling an abortion, some diseases that causes abortions can affect humans. (not that we all do that - but, thought I should mention it)
It is common for the cow not to clean (expell her placenta) after an early calving (abortion), after an extremely late calving, and after twins - or a real hard calving. Just ignore it - unless she shows signs of being sick. Then you need to treat her with antibiotics. Otherwise, let nature take care of it.
On the subject of buying a calf. Yes, your herd is vaccinated. But, the cows in your herd have been interchanging bugs within your herd. The cows have built in immunities to YOUR herd bugs, which will be passed on to their calves thru the colostrum. A newborn has absolutely no immunities other than what mom gives them in her colostrum.
Another herd has their own list of bugs that mom passes down to her calf. That calf's bugs may be totally different than the bugs established in your herd. New calf may be healthy as a "horse", and may stay that way. But, your newborns will be exposed to that calf, carrying "foreign" bugs which can make your newborns sick. Also, a calf coming out of a sale is exposed to tons more bugs to carry back to your farm.
Some herds have lots of exposure with cattle being bought & sold bringing in new bugs all the time to build real strong immunites in the cows. That kind of herd can potentially handle a new influx of bugs, but closed herds are extremely susseptible to bringing in diseases.
This was just a word of caution. I've seen it happen in the past, and it ain't pretty when you are battling sick newborns. Very discouraging to have a healthy live birth, just to have them get sick in 24 hours with e-coli.
The profit you MAY make with a purchased calf can look really small compared to vet meds to keep calves alive - and the hours of work involved.

 

[angus9259]

Had a 2nd calf cow do the same thing this past August - she was due in Sept. I think it was a heat wave in July. This heat we're having this spring can be hard on the cattle too - mine don't have the shade they have in the summer and it's been as high as 85 here already with their heavy black winter coats on still. I'm kinda expecting some of my early pregnancies may be in jeopardy as well.