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greenwillowherefords

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As one of the newest members, I'd like to apologize if I seemed arrogant and overbearing as a guest. I didn't mean to, and I would never intentionally make my breed look bad by doing so. I have taken the challenges from Frankie to heart, and called Jack Ward of the AHA today to request data to back up my claims. I wish you could see my Herefords, but the last time I tried to download a picture I crashed my computer. I'm not very proficient on this thing. I want to thank certherfbeef (did I get that right?) and several others for their kindness and welcome. Frankie, I hope that your bark is worse than your bite! (Please don't take that as an offense!)
My grandfather and uncle raised commercial Herefords for years. They used Lamplighter bulls from Flying G Ranch, Sand Springs, OK. These bulls were incredibly long-bodied. There were a few black-baldies from where the neighbors Angus bulls would jump the fence from time to time. My grandpa regaled me with stories of separating the Hereford and Angus bulls with his little Ford 8N. My uncle took over the cattle in the 80's. He eventually yielded to the fads, and got a Limousin bull. After pulling a lot of calves hung up on those round hips, he traded for a Brangus. As a little boy, not knowing anything about statistics and taste tests, I noticed a distinct difference in the beeves they butchered sired by the Limousin. The meat did not taste as good to me, it had a sour flavor to it. My uncle went to a polled Hereford again after the Brangus, and says to this day that he had his heaviest weaning weights ever out of that bull on those cross-bred cows. He has since had three Angus in a row, two of which he sold because they kept getting out. The third has already started.
I am 30 years old. I got back into cattle four years ago, with a purchase from Flying G. I have since sold foundation seedstock to two new cattlemen. None of the three of us have many cattle, so we kind of pool our resources, and all use my bull. I have made some tremendous friends among other Hereford breeders. Richard Day of Roff, OK has been line-breeding Hazletts for years from Turner Ranch bloodlines, and has sold several head to me. Lotsee Spradling of Flying G has provided my polled seedstock. My Hazlett bull averaged 101% against ANL Quest in the same herd on heifer calves. I have since traded him for a locally bred bull that is ACE on the top side, and has Graystone Hurrah, Gilead 67K etc. in the pedigree. He is probably about 2400#. This bull sired a steer that the Haskell butcher stated was the best marbling he'd ever seen, for what anecdotal evidence is worth. We've sold quite a bit of Hereford beef, with all our customers coming back for more. I'd like to hear from you!
 

Campground Cattle

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In my opinon your bulls are to large if he is coming in at 2400 lbs. This sounds like the old time Herefords I know a lot of Hereford breeders have been working hard to moderate the Herefords. It takes a lot more feed to maintain a 2400 bull versus 1600 to 1700.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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How old would those bulls be? The last hereford bull I shipped was 2300 lbs after a summer of running with the cows and he was just a little fella compared to some up here. I'd guess that he was closer to 2700 when I turned him out. One purebred breeder up here has absolutely magnificent looking horned hereford bulls. They are big and extremely beefy. When he shipped his last herdsire, it weighed in at 3300 lbs at six years of age after a summer with the cows. That guy calves about the same time as I do and he has way bigger calves then me in the fall. I'm not sure if it works out feeding his cows (they probably average 1600 lbs) with the extra money he gets (or used to get) for his calves. I don't think I've ever seen a hereford bull with a mature weight much under 2000 lbs. I believe you said it was Vindicator ? breeding that you were using. Are they that much smaller than the standard hereford.
 

certherfbeef

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I cannot find info on the bulls you mentioned. Can you help me out? I have been searching in the hereford association site. Can you give me a hint as to where I may find it?
 
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The only thing I would say is that the "limo" beef does not always have a "taste" to it, Maybe things have changed. Have raised some limo/angus crosses for feeders and the steaks are great and everyone who eats it is satistfied. I have seen some big herefords..and am not sure that it right. We all have to feed them and so we all have to decide what we can live with. Sounds like it works for you:)
 

Campground Cattle

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Cattle Rack Rancher":6x8dclcj said:
How old would those bulls be? The last hereford bull I shipped was 2300 lbs after a summer of running with the cows and he was just a little fella compared to some up here. I'd guess that he was closer to 2700 when I turned him out. One purebred breeder up here has absolutely magnificent looking horned hereford bulls. They are big and extremely beefy. When he shipped his last herdsire, it weighed in at 3300 lbs at six years of age after a summer with the cows. That guy calves about the same time as I do and he has way bigger calves then me in the fall. I'm not sure if it works out feeding his cows (they probably average 1600 lbs) with the extra money he gets (or used to get) for his calves. I don't think I've ever seen a hereford bull with a mature weight much under 2000 lbs. I believe you said it was Vindicator ? breeding that you were using. Are they that much smaller than the standard hereford.

Those Are huge Herefords with the Braxton influence 2000 would be considered large. Heat x feed makes a moderate bull more desireable to our Southern taste. If you had noticed in some of my earlier post we have been working hard to get a more moderate Hereford
 
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greenwillowherefords

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To answer all of you the best I can: You can take the same bloodlines that weigh 3000 in the north, and the further south you go, the smaller they will be. I have been told this by more than one old-timer. It has something to do with the climate. Having said that, the 2000# bull and 1200# cow produce the ideal steer to finish and "fit the packer's box." My Hazlett bull will be about 2000. My 1100 pound cows will moderate the size of the calves from the bull. I have RHF Victors in my pedigrees of polled cattle. The Hazletts are of Turner Ranch bloodlines.
I have no doubt that Limi's today have made improvements.
If you are talking about the Latitude bull, look at Hoffman's ad in the annual reference edition Hereford World. For pictures and EPD's on Gilead, etc. go to Reedent.com
 
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greenwillowherefords

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certherfbeef":2t3zj2iw said:
I cannot find info on the bulls you mentioned. Can you help me out? I have been searching in the hereford association site. Can you give me a hint as to where I may find it?
The Gilead bull is listed in Reed Enterprises bull listing under "S Gilead 67K"
The Latitude bull is on page 146 of July's HEREFOD WORLD. I talked to Colin Hoffman tonight. He said they fed the bulls out with all the other bulls for sale. The Latitude calves were out of 1st calvers, and posted the best gains of up to 6 pounds per day.
If I haven't addressed the right bull yet, let me know.
 

ollie

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I know this will sound more offensive than I intend but havn't we made enough progress in the last fifty or sixty years to make you consider newer bloodlines?
 

dun

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I talked at length a while back with folks that put on registered sales around the country. I was told that the northern breeders bring their smaller animals south because they can't sell them in the north and the southern breeders haul their "too big" animals north for the same reason. Natural selection will make a difference in size north to south, but we have I think taken that to extremes in some cases.

dun
 

Frankie

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greenwillowherefords":39lygp0s said:
As one of the newest members, I'd like to apologize if I seemed arrogant and overbearing as a guest. I didn't mean to, and I would never intentionally make my breed look bad by doing so. I have taken the challenges from Frankie to heart, and called Jack Ward of the AHA today to request data to back up my claims. I wish you could see my Herefords, but the last time I tried to download a picture I crashed my computer. I'm not very proficient on this thing. I want to thank certherfbeef (did I get that right?) and several others for their kindness and welcome. Frankie, I hope that your bark is worse than your bite! (Please don't take that as an offense!)
My grandfather and uncle raised commercial Herefords for years. They used Lamplighter bulls from Flying G Ranch, Sand Springs, OK. These bulls were incredibly long-bodied. There were a few black-baldies from where the neighbors Angus bulls would jump the fence from time to time. My grandpa regaled me with stories of separating the Hereford and Angus bulls with his little Ford 8N. My uncle took over the cattle in the 80's. He eventually yielded to the fads, and got a Limousin bull. After pulling a lot of calves hung up on those round hips, he traded for a Brangus. As a little boy, not knowing anything about statistics and taste tests, I noticed a distinct difference in the beeves they butchered sired by the Limousin. The meat did not taste as good to me, it had a sour flavor to it. My uncle went to a polled Hereford again after the Brangus, and says to this day that he had his heaviest weaning weights ever out of that bull on those cross-bred cows. He has since had three Angus in a row, two of which he sold because they kept getting out. The third has already started.
I am 30 years old. I got back into cattle four years ago, with a purchase from Flying G. I have since sold foundation seedstock to two new cattlemen. None of the three of us have many cattle, so we kind of pool our resources, and all use my bull. I have made some tremendous friends among other Hereford breeders. Richard Day of Roff, OK has been line-breeding Hazletts for years from Turner Ranch bloodlines, and has sold several head to me. Lotsee Spradling of Flying G has provided my polled seedstock. My Hazlett bull averaged 101% against ANL Quest in the same herd on heifer calves. I have since traded him for a locally bred bull that is ACE on the top side, and has Graystone Hurrah, Gilead 67K etc. in the pedigree. He is probably about 2400#. This bull sired a steer that the Haskell butcher stated was the best marbling he'd ever seen, for what anecdotal evidence is worth. We've sold quite a bit of Hereford beef, with all our customers coming back for more. I'd like to hear from you!

Welcome to the boards. Sorry if I came across as a grouch, but I don't think it helps the board, the breed, or the breeder to post claims that can't be verified. Personally, I like Herefords; it hurts my heart to see how Hereford bulls are discounted at some sales. We attended several K74 sales over the years and their bulls sold well. They were held at the Turner Ranch near Sulpher. But, frankly, I think the Horned Herefords are going to go away. At the K74 sale they would put up sheets of plywood along the entrance to the ring. By the time the sale was over, that plywood was shredded by the horns. Not because the bulls were fighting or wild; they were calm and seemed gentle, but shredded nontheless. Producers just don't like to deal with horns. There was some info on Temple Grandin's site (http://www.templegrandin.com, I think) that claimed Herefords were the best dispositioned cattle breed. And calm cattle gain better in the feedlot.

I was serious about the OBI recommendation. I know it has made a terrific difference in our marketing to test Angus bulls at OBI. I'm not sure how much it would help a small Hereford breeder, but think about it. There's an OBI sale in October. If nothing else, try to attend. They feed a free lunch. The October sale is smaller than the Spring sale, so it won't take too long. Good luck....
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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I talked at length a while back with folks that put on registered sales around the country. I was told that the northern breeders bring their smaller animals south because they can't sell them in the north and the southern breeders haul their "too big" animals north for the same reason. Natural selection will make a difference in size north to south, but we have I think taken that to extremes in some cases.

dun

I think you are probably right on the 'natural selection' thing there dun. Cattle up here probably either need to be bigger or have substantially more hair to keep warm through our tough winters up here. The genetics just seem to be bigger here overall. I was at the neighbors the other day and he was showing me his little bull that was stunted because he was born in the fall 2 years ago. He probably weighs between 1200-1400 lbs. The big bull just absolutely dwarfs him, I'm sure he weighs well over 3000 lbs. My problem with that is that may be his mature weight, but it took him over four years to get there. I have one of his calves, the thing is 18 months old and she has just got rid of that calfish look in the past couple of months. I can't see where slow maturing cattle like that are going to fit into any kind of breeding program on my farm so she is headed to auction next week for the measly pittance that I will get for her.
 
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greenwillowherefords

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ollie":f5hh028n said:
I know this will sound more offensive than I intend but havn't we made enough progress in the last fifty or sixty years to make you consider newer bloodlines?

All these newer bloodlines had to be developed from older ones. Sometimes what is considered progress is not. Mr. Day has been developing those Hazletts, selecting for the best for 40 years. They are still raising Line Ones. There was nothing wrong with the meat quality that made beef king of meats when Herefords were king of beef. Those old bloodlines can still bring something to the table when blended with the new ones. I noticed that DeShazers still had an own calf of Stlbrk Gilead 67k in their newest catalog. I thought Victors were still relevant last time I checked! (PW Victor Boomer P606?) Some of the older bloodlines have less suspect cattle in the pedigree too. The last herd bull I sold was as big as his momma at a year or 13 months old, and had never been pushed.
 

ollie

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greenwillowherefords":3ugqpknu said:
ollie":3ugqpknu said:
I know this will sound more offensive than I intend but havn't we made enough progress in the last fifty or sixty years to make you consider newer bloodlines?

All these newer bloodlines had to be developed from older ones. Sometimes what is considered progress is not. Mr. Day has been developing those Hazletts, selecting for the best for 40 years. They are still raising Line Ones. There was nothing wrong with the meat quality that made beef king of meats when Herefords were king of beef. Those old bloodlines can still bring something to the table when blended with the new ones. I noticed that DeShazers still had an own calf of Stlbrk Gilead 67k in their newest catalog. I thought Victors were still relevant last time I checked! (PW Victor Boomer P606?) Some of the older bloodlines have less suspect cattle in the pedigree too. The last herd bull I sold was as big as his momma at a year or 13 months old, and had never been pushed.
In your opinion was Victor strait Hereford?
 
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greenwillowherefords

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Frankie":2c1q4fyi said:
greenwillowherefords":2c1q4fyi said:
As one of the newest members, I'd like to apologize if I seemed arrogant and overbearing as a guest. I didn't mean to, and I would never intentionally make my breed look bad by doing so. I have taken the challenges from Frankie to heart, and called Jack Ward of the AHA today to request data to back up my claims. I wish you could see my Herefords, but the last time I tried to download a picture I crashed my computer. I'm not very proficient on this thing. I want to thank certherfbeef (did I get that right?) and several others for their kindness and welcome. Frankie, I hope that your bark is worse than your bite! (Please don't take that as an offense!)
My grandfather and uncle raised commercial Herefords for years. They used Lamplighter bulls from Flying G Ranch, Sand Springs, OK. These bulls were incredibly long-bodied. There were a few black-baldies from where the neighbors Angus bulls would jump the fence from time to time. My grandpa regaled me with stories of separating the Hereford and Angus bulls with his little Ford 8N. My uncle took over the cattle in the 80's. He eventually yielded to the fads, and got a Limousin bull. After pulling a lot of calves hung up on those round hips, he traded for a Brangus. As a little boy, not knowing anything about statistics and taste tests, I noticed a distinct difference in the beeves they butchered sired by the Limousin. The meat did not taste as good to me, it had a sour flavor to it. My uncle went to a polled Hereford again after the Brangus, and says to this day that he had his heaviest weaning weights ever out of that bull on those cross-bred cows. He has since had three Angus in a row, two of which he sold because they kept getting out. The third has already started.
I am 30 years old. I got back into cattle four years ago, with a purchase from Flying G. I have since sold foundation seedstock to two new cattlemen. None of the three of us have many cattle, so we kind of pool our resources, and all use my bull. I have made some tremendous friends among other Hereford breeders. Richard Day of Roff, OK has been line-breeding Hazletts for years from Turner Ranch bloodlines, and has sold several head to me. Lotsee Spradling of Flying G has provided my polled seedstock. My Hazlett bull averaged 101% against ANL Quest in the same herd on heifer calves. I have since traded him for a locally bred bull that is ACE on the top side, and has Graystone Hurrah, Gilead 67K etc. in the pedigree. He is probably about 2400#. This bull sired a steer that the Haskell butcher stated was the best marbling he'd ever seen, for what anecdotal evidence is worth. We've sold quite a bit of Hereford beef, with all our customers coming back for more. I'd like to hear from you!

Welcome to the boards. Sorry if I came across as a grouch, but I don't think it helps the board, the breed, or the breeder to post claims that can't be verified. Personally, I like Herefords; it hurts my heart to see how Hereford bulls are discounted at some sales. We attended several K74 sales over the years and their bulls sold well. They were held at the Turner Ranch near Sulpher. But, frankly, I think the Horned Herefords are going to go away. At the K74 sale they would put up sheets of plywood along the entrance to the ring. By the time the sale was over, that plywood was shredded by the horns. Not because the bulls were fighting or wild; they were calm and seemed gentle, but shredded nontheless. Producers just don't like to deal with horns. There was some info on Temple Grandin's site (http://www.templegrandin.com, I think) that claimed Herefords were the best dispositioned cattle breed. And calm cattle gain better in the feedlot.

I was serious about the OBI recommendation. I know it has made a terrific difference in our marketing to test Angus bulls at OBI. I'm not sure how much it would help a small Hereford breeder, but think about it. There's an OBI sale in October. If nothing else, try to attend. They feed a free lunch. The October sale is smaller than the Spring sale, so it won't take too long. Good luck....
See my idea about horns on the horned or polled subject on breed board
 
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greenwillowherefords

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ollie":3jomevy2 said:
greenwillowherefords":3jomevy2 said:
ollie":3jomevy2 said:
I know this will sound more offensive than I intend but havn't we made enough progress in the last fifty or sixty years to make you consider newer bloodlines?

All these newer bloodlines had to be developed from older ones. Sometimes what is considered progress is not. Mr. Day has been developing those Hazletts, selecting for the best for 40 years. They are still raising Line Ones. There was nothing wrong with the meat quality that made beef king of meats when Herefords were king of beef. Those old bloodlines can still bring something to the table when blended with the new ones. I noticed that DeShazers still had an own calf of Stlbrk Gilead 67k in their newest catalog. I thought Victors were still relevant last time I checked! (PW Victor Boomer P606?) Some of the older bloodlines have less suspect cattle in the pedigree too. The last herd bull I sold was as big as his momma at a year or 13 months old, and had never been pushed.
In your opinion was Victor strait Hereford?
I've never heard anything to the contrary
 

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