4 mo old calf down

[thefarmerswife]

We have a 4 month old calf that just started laying down a few days ago and now for the last 2 or 3 days refuses to get up. He eats fine and poops fine, but won't get up. He's drinking very little water now also. No sniffles or fever and he doesn't appear to be in pain, he just won't get up it seems. Every time I go out to check on him I expect to see him dead. We seperated from the rest of the herd a few days ago when we first discovered him down. We gave him a shot of LA200 yesterday and he seemed to want to get up for a minute after that. We'll try again today. Any ideas? He was fine before this.

 

[Bez+]

We have a 4 month old calf that just started laying down a few days ago and now for the last 2 or 3 days refuses to get up. He eats fine and poops fine, but won't get up. He's drinking very little water now also. No sniffles or fever and he doesn't appear to be in pain, he just won't get up it seems. Every time I go out to check on him I expect to see him dead. We seperated from the rest of the herd a few days ago when we first discovered him down. We gave him a shot of LA200 yesterday and he seemed to want to get up for a minute after that. We'll try again today. Any ideas? He was fine before this.

Call a vet yet?

I can think of about 20 things it could be. Others here could probably do better than me.

I shoot them if they stay down. In fact - I know it may have cost me an animal or two - but overall I believe I am ahead financially when I consider med costs.

If they are down for 24 - they get up when I come over to them - or they die from lead poisoning.

Bez+

 

[angie1]

Huh. Nerve damage? Try an anti inflammatory med ~ dex or banamine. Give him 30/45 minutes with that under his belt then really try to get him up. He cannot stay down like that, if nothing else ~ that will kill him. You are sure nothing is broken? No broken legs? See what happens if you are able to get him up, see if he appears to stumble, fall over, favor a leg or flat out refuse to get up at all. Soon dehydration alone will take its toll. Can you get a lift under him? Decide how much time and money you are willing to invest. If you are anything like me it is always "OK, a little more time, a little more money, one more thing to try and then he needs to die...." :roll:

Maybe someone else can offer you some different ideas.

Good Luck.

 

[larryshoat]

What did you actually read on your thermometer ?

Larry

 

[thefarmerswife]

Temp is 101.4
We are cleaning up the poop that piles up at his back end and turning him over daily.
He now drinks greedily from a bottle I'm giving him, no matter what I put in it.
He continues to eat hay.
He started out gradually laying down like he was just contented at first. Then more and more time down.
Now that we got him isolated in the barn in the barn, he has refused to get up at all for the last 3 days or so.
He has some gunk coming from his eyes, like where tears would go, but his eyes look okay.
Feeling him all over, poking and prodding and pulling seems to reveal no sore spots.
He got "dropped off" on us so to speak by a family memeber like some people drop off their cats here.
We know where he came from, not a farm I would buy a calf from due to poor conditions for all animals there.
He went from his mother to medicated calf replacer and when that 1 bag of replacer ran out he came here.
He's been on pasture ever since with other cows his age and more recently they all mixed with the larger herd.
None of our other cows are having any problems so it leads me to believe it's not a mineral or vitamin deficiency or feed problem.

 

[Beefy]

what kind of condition is he in and when was he last dewormed?

 

[Bez+]

One bag of replacer - not enough.

Far as I am concerned he is an expense and possibly a disease carrier.

He!! you seem so determined to keep this thing - hit him with 2 cc vit ABDE and 2 cc Selenium. Cheap and it works. I think I suspect but I will not offer a cause.

You see - already you have so many potential cures and solutions offered to you on this thread - you will never keep up - invisible diagnosis is ridiculous in most cases.

How long you going to let this calf stay down?

Planning to call the vet or shoot him?

If you are truly serious about this you will call the vet. If not then give him the final solution.

Long time on the ground.

Your "good intentions" are probably doing more bad than you think.

A real "Farmerswife" knows when it is time to keep going and more importantly - she knows when it is time to kill something.

Bez+

 

[dun]

Here's a rarity............ I agree with Bez. Contact the vet and schedule having it posted. Then shoot it and haul it in so you can find out what the problem is/was

 

[thefarmerswife]

One of the problems is, he doesn't get any worst. He doesn't get any better, but he doesn't get any worst.
Second problem, I've never found a vet that will come out here with the exception of one guy who says he never worked on cows, but his experience with goats makes him think he could find a cow's jugular. ( ??? ) Ya' see what I'm saying.
I've had to put animals down before. And do when I'm sure it's time.
He's been getting vitamins and selenium via a mix in his water.
He'll either take a turn for the worst or get up.
I know the probability is extremely high he'll take a turn for the worst.
When that happens we'll put him down.
Then get the pm done and I'll let you know what they find.
Probably the obvious.
Whatever that is.

 

[Beefy]

i had two go down last winter...
one was just wormy as all get out b/c the wormer wasnt working. it took me and my dad raising him up every day for a week and then one day he just up and decided he was going to live so he might as well get up and he did. the other one... was more of a freak type thing...i just happened to find him cast by some troughs with his head stuck in one. he had to have been tossed over onto the trough and slipped and cast himself first and then got his head caught when struggling to get up. anyway one of his front legs was dislocated or something and again after lifting him for a week he finally started walking again. he wouldnt even try for a long time.

if hes sitting up and eating and perky i would keep lifting him at least two or three times a day for a week or so before i give up on him.

 

[thefarmerswife]

Well as an update and answer to a previous question....
We don't "worm" them here. We are a certified organic operation so never have used a commercial wormer on any of them. We rotate through pastures and use a Salt/Kelp/DE mix that they consume free choice for parasite control.
I'd say he took a turn for the worst last night. Sounds and looks like pneumonia now, probalby from laying down so long. It was bound to happen I suppose. Hopefully it's at least a good lesson for the youngen' that bought this darn calf in the first place and then couldn't follow through with caring for it. You know like when your kids say "Please can I have a puppy, I'll take care of it, I promise."
Difference is, not our kid, and she's 18 but oh,well. She regrets it now. I suppose it'll never happen again.
The calf has been well isolated forom the rest of the herd since it first began to exhibit any symptoms of illness so I really don't think I have to worry about it making any of our cattle sick.
My husband is opposed to wasting any time or gas or money on a post mortem.
I'll let you know if we ahve one anyway and what the outcome is.

 

[thefarmerswife]

Oh, I meant to mention.
We've had about 55 beef cattle here over the last couple of years.
Yes, I know, we're very small.
This is the first one we've lost.
I hear that's pretty good.
Actually it's the first we've even had trouble with.
So I'm not in the habit of saving the underdogs.
It's the first underdog we've had.

 

[KNERSIE]

Well as an update and answer to a previous question....
We don't "worm" them here. We are a certified organic operation so never have used a commercial wormer on any of them.

Does the welfare of the animals play any role in decision making or is the absolute desire to keep the organic status the most important factor?

We rotate through pastures and use a Salt/Kelp/DE mix that they consume free choice for parasite control.
I'd say he took a turn for the worst last night. Sounds and looks like pneumonia now, probalby from laying down so long. It was bound to happen I suppose.

If you knew that it was bound to happen why didn't you act sooner?

Hopefully it's at least a good lesson for the youngen' that bought this darn calf in the first place and then couldn't follow through with caring for it. You know like when your kids say "Please can I have a puppy, I'll take care of it, I promise."
Difference is, not our kid, and she's 18 but oh,well. She regrets it now. I suppose it'll never happen again.
The calf has been well isolated forom the rest of the herd since it first began to exhibit any symptoms of illness so I really don't think I have to worry about it making any of our cattle sick.

Don't bet on that

My husband is opposed to wasting any time or gas or money on a post mortem.
I'll let you know if we ahve one anyway and what the outcome is.

Oh well, then the lesson will only be learned in the future, I guess.

Oh, I meant to mention.
We've had about 55 beef cattle here over the last couple of years.
Yes, I know, we're very small.
This is the first one we've lost.

Sounds like the beginners luck has run out, try and figure out for yourself why you had no losses in the first two years.... here's a hint... it has nothing to do with organic status.

 

[dun]

Have you ever had fecal exams done to see if you're actaully controlling the worms?

 

[angus9259]

have you called a vet yet? if not, are you being humane? short of a vet or putting it down, banamine is what I'd try to get it moving again but pretty sure you have to get that from a vet so, while you're there, take a stool sample and ask them.

 

[angie1]

It is my understanding that people who are certified organic will treat their cattle with antibiotics when necessary, then sell that specific cow/calf through the mainstream market as opposed to certified. I am assuming that you have euthanized this calf by now(?).

 

[Beefy]

i wonder why the calf was removed from his dam in the first place? oh well, could have been any number of things. by the way he got weaker and weaker before going down made me think of worms. also the gooey eyes. i guess they might have worms on that other farm? could have been bvd or something or just pneumonia. calf could have got bloat from being down too long. etc etc.

 

[thefarmerswife]

Wow. I see why some people don't ask for help.
Ask for a little input on a sick calf and get the snot beat out of ya.
A calf who is sick can of course be treated conventionally, but will then be removed from its organic status. No problem.
We just happen to raise organic beef here. This calf was never organic anyways as it came from a conventional farm. We just don't happen to have our experience in conventional treatment of sick calves.
This calf was removed so early from its dam because it came from a conventional farm and that's what they do there. Our calves stay with their mothers here until the mothers have had enough of them. We have some of the biggest healthiest calves you'll ever see.
Calves raised properly under organic control rarely get sick because the emphasis is on prevention.
It is not luck.
I acted as soon as I saw the calf lying down more than I thought it should have. It was still predominantly on its feet at that point, and may I point out still eating and drinking normally then and with no fever or other outward symptoms. It was only after isolating it and removing it from the pasture that it started becoming more obvious that indeed there was something wrong. We began administering antibiotics as soon as we brought it in.
The extra minerals offered are organic, not offered because they are organic, just because we have them.
Because they are organic does not make them any less effective than conventional stuff.
Yes, we have had fecal samples tested for worms and they were clean.
To the mean people, sad to see people so miserable they must beat up someone else for kicks.

 

[milkmaid]

"thefarmerswife" -- Some folks, myself included, care deeply about the welfare of the animals we have the care of, and vehemently hate anything that seems like inhumane treatment.

My thoughts on the matter -- if the animals are healthy you do your best to keep them that way. If they get sick you put everything you have into saving them (I'm talking about effort and knowledge, not necessarily everything in the drug cabinet and all the money in your pocketbook), and set a deadline for when they have to show improvement. If you can't cure them it is only humane to put them down. Personally, my standards for putting an animal down are as follows:

-any animal who cannot make a full recovery and return to a useful, healthy, normal life
-any animal who is terminally ill
-any animal that is not making improvement past the deadline
-any animal that is suffering

I know we make exceptions in some cases, esp for heavy bred cows, but 99.9% of the time that's what a livestock owner ought to follow.

So... what do you expect ranchers who care about the welfare of animals to say, when you tell them the calf isn't being seen by a vet, isn't being treated, isn't making improvement, and seems to be left to suffer and die on its own??? Observing the calf, turning him daily, and giving feed and water doesn't make the situation humane. Of course we're going to say something; can you expect anything else?

 

[KNERSIE]

"thefarmerswife" -- Some folks, myself included, care deeply about the welfare of the animals we have the care of, and vehemently hate anything that seems like inhumane treatment.

My thoughts on the matter -- if the animals are healthy you do your best to keep them that way. If they get sick you put everything you have into saving them (I'm talking about effort and knowledge, not necessarily everything in the drug cabinet and all the money in your pocketbook), and set a deadline for when they have to show improvement. If you can't cure them it is only humane to put them down. Personally, my standards for putting an animal down are as follows:

-any animal who cannot make a full recovery and return to a useful, healthy, normal life
-any animal who is terminally ill
-any animal that is not making improvement past the deadline
-any animal that is suffering

I know we make exceptions in some cases, esp for heavy bred cows, but 99.9% of the time that's what a livestock owner ought to follow.

So... what do you expect ranchers who care about the welfare of animals to say, when you tell them the calf isn't being seen by a vet, isn't being treated, isn't making improvement, and seems to be left to suffer and die on its own??? Observing the calf, turning him daily, and giving feed and water doesn't make the situation humane. Of course we're going to say something; can you expect anything else?

Well said, my point exactly!