30, 60 or 90 days?

[Double R Ranch]

How long do you all leave your bulls in with your cows for breeding? We have been doing a 90 day program in the past but we seem to be waiting on just a couple of cows at the end of calving. Most all the cows have calved by the first 30 days. A couple will calve in the 60 day time frame and then we seem to be waiting on 2-3 towards the END of the 90 day period. Makes it a bit difficult for vac. etc.

How do you all deal with this in your herds? We are growing so fast that things don't seem to work as well as they did with a smaller herd.

Thanks for the help.

Double R

 

[Farmhand]

We run closer to the 60 day. Just works out that way though. We want enough time for a cow to cycle a second time if she doesn't catch on the first cycle but have to have the bull out soon enough to use him for 3 breeding periods a year.

 

[El_Putzo]

Double R,

Why not just cull the 2-3 that are lagging behind and save a couple extra heifers back, or buy a few extra.

 

[CowCop]

~

We run our bull with the cows about 65-70 days.

There will always be a few bred at the end of the cycle.
Can't avoid it.

My notes from the last 3 years say that the last calves born outweigh the middle born calves at birth and again at weaning.

Thought that was interesting.

But I suspect it is because it is mostly the older cows that lag at the end. The bulls seem to prefer the younger cows early in the season and spend a majority of time following them around.

Any other ideas why this is so ?
And has anyone else noticed this ?

 

[norriscathy]

60 days was just to short and 90 was way to long; went to 70 days and still have been sitting here for three weeks waiting on the last two to calve. Think we'll go to 60 or 65 days and stay with it.

Norris

 

[Dave]

I leave bulls in most of the year. I wait to pull them until after the first calves are born. I breed for February/March calves. The majority of the calves are born in 45 days. Any cow that calves in April is on my list. Do it twice and she is gone. Any calf born in May and they leave as a pair after the spring flush is past. I could pull the bulls but then those cows would be sold as open in the fall and I make more off them selling them as pairs in June.
Lots of big range country the bull go out in the spring and stay out until the cows are gathered in the fall. It is just not practical to search 1,000's of acres to pull the bulls.
dave

 

[randiliana]

We go 60 days. We start in early March, and I hate waiting for cows to calve in May. As well, the calves are much more uniform in size if the calving season is only 60 days.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I leave the bulls in right up to calving time, and any lates simply get shipped (except since BSE, they stay but their offspring is not retained). The auction barn is informed that they are bred, but past second cycle.

The reason I leave the bulls in year round is for odd problems that crop up. For example, my herd sire last year came up with 20% detached heads on the semen. So the egg would fertilize then be rejected 30 to 60 days later. Nothing wrong with the cow, but she'd be open again. If I'd stuck with a strict 60 day or 70 day calving cycle, I'd have 20 calves on the place, and the rest of the herd would be perfectly good open cows. I stuck my heifer bull in, so the rest will calve soon. If I hadn't had a clean up bull, I'd have year round calving this year, but at least I'd have the chance to bring everyone back into cycle in a couple years.

Rod

 

[SEC]

Was this just a rusty load or did he have 20% detached heads all the time?

I have never heard of such a situation?
We used a bull years ago with a 50% test and he covered 51 cows in 60 days.

 

[SEC]

We run the bull max 60 days, usually 45 days. A short AI period, calving this year was 62 days.

Good cows will get bred and the poor ones will be later or shipped.

We ship everything that's open, regardless of who she is. If we have purchased her recently, it's tough luck.

There is absolutely no point in keeping an open cows, a calving injury might warrant a 2nd chance. But if the cow is open she is open, genetically she isn't as good as the ones that are bred. Age isn't an excuse it's just a ticket to hamburger heaven.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Was this just a rusty load or did he have 20% detached heads all the time?

I have never heard of such a situation?
We used a bull years ago with a 50% test and he covered 51 cows in 60 days.

20% all the time. My vet's seen it before, and since I'm getting my calves in clusters now (4 and 5 per day), and they are definitely from my backup bull, there is nothing wrong with the cows.

50% detached heads? Or 50% live? I doubt it was detached heads. Theres a difference. Detached head semen is still motile and can fertilize the egg, but its not viable and will be rejected by the cow in 30 to 60 days.

Rod

 

[SEC]

Well there you go, I didn't know that. I guess yesterday wasn't a complete loss to begin with.

 

[ENNOT]

We run our bulls for 65 days. Late calvers will be moved to the fall program this year and open cows go. With the expected decrease in cattle over the next few years, late cows will be given the chance as fall calvers to help our cash flow.

 

[ONLY-BEEF]

round up them bulls after sixty days. when you got buyers that count on ya haulen in uniform calves on sale day ya cant have em spred over 3 months or more.

 

[dundidit]

I wish I could get by with 30 days, are you guys givin' em a shot of luta or something to bring 'em all in together or what?

 

[msscamp]

~My notes from the last 3 years say that the last calves born outweigh the middle born calves at birth and again at weaning.

Thought that was interesting.

Maybe I'm off track here, but it makes perfect sense to me. The mothers of the last calves born have had longer to recover from the last calf, regain optimum condition, and have more to give to the developing calf - both in terms of nutrition (not the right word, but I think you know what I'm getting at here) during development and milk after the calf is born. It's a proven fact that cows that have been drug down from the previous calf don't produce the same quantity of milk as cows that are given time to recover condition between calves (of course, this depends on the cows milking ability, but generally speaking). Yet another reason to make sure there is an adequate time interval between weaning and calving. Some cows can do it on 60 days, but most can't without compromising the next calf without supplementation of some type - and even if they can do it on a 60 day interval, it will show up at some point in their lives. Just my thoughts.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I usually go 90 days only because the difference between the selling price of open cows and the buying price of replacements is just a little too steep up here. Also, I've had a few cows that will fall back one year, and catch up the next. I actually had two that calved at the end of May last year and they've both already calved this year. I guess I figure even if they calve at the end of that 90 days one year, they might catch up into that 60 day cycle again if I give them another year. Just my thoughts.

 

[cypressfarms]

I had two cows that jumped from having their first calve in May '05 to 2nd calve in March '06. That's pretty good. Only problem is that one of them stays in my backpocket, and will be taking a ride soon. I don't care how fertile, pretty, and good of a calf she throws, it aint worth me (or worse - my kids) getting hurt over.

 

[jcarkie]

i do 60 with only 20 cows 5-1 until 7-1, i don't like them at the end but usually they catch up then they are safe. i ship open cows at preg ck in nov. this year the bull went in april 1st be cause i had no where else to put him, so they will be earlier next year better early than late. he has already bred three if they stick.

 

[CowCop]

~My notes from the last 3 years say that the last calves born outweigh the middle born calves at birth and again at weaning.

Thought that was interesting.

Maybe I'm off track here, but it makes perfect sense to me. The mothers of the last calves born have had longer to recover from the last calf, regain optimum condition, and have more to give to the developing calf - both in terms of nutrition (not the right word, but I think you know what I'm getting at here) during development and milk after the calf is born. It's a proven fact that cows that have been drug down from the previous calf don't produce the same quantity of milk as cows that are given time to recover condition between calves (of course, this depends on the cows milking ability, but generally speaking). Yet another reason to make sure there is an adequate time interval between weaning and calving. Some cows can do it on 60 days, but most can't without compromising the next calf without supplementation of some type - and even if they can do it on a 60 day interval, it will show up at some point in their lives. Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the reply MssCamp. Very Good explantion.
AND... it Makes sense.

On a side note---When you going to post some photos of your MGs ?