2 calves down

[suzie]

I am a newbie here and to cattle.

I have a 6 month old heifer and a 1 year old heifer.

The 1 year old went down 2 weeks ago. She had bottle jaw and was very weak. Stools were a little loose but not watery. I took a stool sample to the vet and she said some worms but not bad. I wormed her and gave her a shot of cloistral vaccine (recommended by the vet). She is eating very well (hay and some sweet feed) as well as drinking. She cannot stand though. The bottle jaw is gone.

A week later the 6 month old went down while we were out of state. Same symptoms. Stools are solid, drinking and eating well. She got the shot too and wormed.

Both are still down. Both are very alert and eating and drinking.

Vet is out of town for the holidays.....any suggestions?

I hate the feeling that I should be doing more but don't know what TO do.

Thanks for any advice/suggestions.

 

[Chris H]

1st. Are these the only cattle you have? If not, worm everything on the place.
2nd. Fecal counts aren't the most reliable way of assessing the worm problem, symptoms like bottle jaw & unthriftyness are more reliable about letting you know you have a severe worm problem.
3rd. How much feed are you giving these cattle, how much grain, how much hay?
4th. Do you have plenty of clean water where they can reach it?
5th. What wormer did you use? How did you administer it, orally, injection, or pour on?

 

[chippie]

A couple more questions.
How long have you owned them and where did they come from?

 

[tom4018]

Where are you located?

 

[snake67]

I am a newbie here and to cattle.

I have a 6 month old heifer and a 1 year old heifer.

The 1 year old went down 2 weeks ago. She had bottle jaw and was very weak. Stools were a little loose but not watery. I took a stool sample to the vet and she said some worms but not bad. I wormed her and gave her a shot of cloistral vaccine (recommended by the vet). She is eating very well (hay and some sweet feed) as well as drinking. She cannot stand though. The bottle jaw is gone.

A week later the 6 month old went down while we were out of state. Same symptoms. Stools are solid, drinking and eating well. She got the shot too and wormed.

Both are still down. Both are very alert and eating and drinking.

Vet is out of town for the holidays.....any suggestions?

I hate the feeling that I should be doing more but don't know what TO do.

Thanks for any advice/suggestions.

Well Suzie - seems to me like there must be another vet within a couple hundred miles - best call him/her asap becase you got troubles that no one here can do much more than speculate about

You even try to call another vet? Or are you just stringing us along?

My best

Bez

 

[Lucky_P]

If you've got 6mo/1yr calves developing 'bottle jaw' and going down, you've got bigger problems than worms. I've not seen these calves(and, evidently neither has any other veterinarian), but my suspicion is that they're probably not being maintained on an adequate plane of nutrition for their current age/stage of growth and current weather/environmental conditions.
You can feed your way through a worm problem, but you can't deworm your way out of a feed deficiency.

 

[greybeard]

.
You can feed your way through a worm problem, but you can't deworm your way out of a feed deficiency.

Words to live by right there.

 

[inyati13]

what is bottlejaw folks?

 

[suzie]

NC

They were born here on my property.

Have had the 4 other cows (1 bull and 3 cows) for 2 years. The big cows were are in a separate pasture from the calves.

Bottle jaw in the 1 year old is gone.

Water is fresh (I am putting a little baking soda in too), hay is from a good source and they have access to it all the time, I am putting it right under their noses several times a day. Grains, a scoop a couple times a day.

I was 750 miles away for 6 days over the holidays so getting the vet over wasn't an option. Got home last night.

Wormer, orally, 5 days in a row. Safeguard (this is what the vet told me to get).

Injection of ultrabac 7 (recommended by vet) once each calf in the neck.

I've got a message in to the county livestock extension agent and am waiting a reply.

Bez....I am not sure what you mean by stringing you along???

 

[inyati13]

Quote from suzie, "Bez....I am not sure what you mean by stringing you along???"

suzie, Bez is a jack of all trades and a master of none by his own admission. :lol: He has some good information sometimes.

It sounds like you are caring for them well. Be careful with bicarbonate of soda that you do not use too much; it is a strong buffer and has the potential of getting the natural pH out of balance. I think Bez is right that responses can be little more than speculation when it comes to a diagnosis. But getting a good vet seems important.

BTW I googled the bottleneck. Now I know. Had never heard that term.

 

[chippie]

You didn't say how big your pasture is or where you live.
You should deworm all of your cattle and begin a parasite management program. Where you live can have a bearing on a deworming program.

What type of grain are you feeding them? What is the protein content? You should weigh your feed, find out how much a scoop full weighs. You can not accurately judge how much you are feeding them by volume (scoop full). You might be surprised that you are not feeding enough.
A scoop of textured sweet feed will weigh less than pellets, and scoop sizes differ. You can buy scoops that show the weight of the product. They are pretty accurate. http://www.sstack.com/barn-supplies-horse-feeders/Schneider-s-Super-Feed-Scoop/

Good luck with them.

 

[Chris H]

NC

They were born here on my property.

Have had the 4 other cows (1 bull and 3 cows) for 2 years. The big cows were are in a separate pasture from the calves.

Bottle jaw in the 1 year old is gone.

Water is fresh (I am putting a little baking soda in too), hay is from a good source and they have access to it all the time, I am putting it right under their noses several times a day. Grains, a scoop a couple times a day.

I was 750 miles away for 6 days over the holidays so getting the vet over wasn't an option. Got home last night.

Wormer, orally, 5 days in a row. Safeguard (this is what the vet told me to get).

Injection of ultrabac 7 (recommended by vet) once each calf in the neck.

I've got a message in to the county livestock extension agent and am waiting a reply.

Bez....I am not sure what you mean by stringing you along???

Have you called back the vet that did the fecal exam?
I'm not familiar with a Safeguard product that is administered 5 days in a row, not to say there isn't. An oral or injectible wormer is better than a pour-on, so I'm glad you went with an oral treatment.
There are worms that Safeguard does not get, ask the vet if you need to use another product the next time you worm. Worming is a regular process, not a one time event you do when calves look sickly.
It'd probably be good to get a test run on the hay to get a good idea of the quality. Even good suppliers sell crappy hay, if that's all you want to pay for it.
As others said, how many pounds of the grain/day, and what protein %? Have you changed how much you feed since they got sick?
How thin are these calves? If you feel along side the backbone just behind the shoulders can you feel where the ribs attach or is it filled in with flesh? Can you feel all the ribs through the midsection, or a few?

"stringing us along" -- trying to bait us, feeding us a line, etc. We sometimes have people come here with a story and ask for help to fix something with their animals that could be due to neglect, or ill-advised good intentions. Sometimes they turn out to be 'PETA' types just stirring up a fuss.
Good luck with getting your calves healthy.

 

[suzie]

NC

They were born here on my property.

Have had the 4 other cows (1 bull and 3 cows) for 2 years. The big cows were are in a separate pasture from the calves.

Bottle jaw in the 1 year old is gone.

Water is fresh (I am putting a little baking soda in too), hay is from a good source and they have access to it all the time, I am putting it right under their noses several times a day. Grains, a scoop a couple times a day.

I was 750 miles away for 6 days over the holidays so getting the vet over wasn't an option. Got home last night.

Wormer, orally, 5 days in a row. Safeguard (this is what the vet told me to get).

Injection of ultrabac 7 (recommended by vet) once each calf in the neck.

I've got a message in to the county livestock extension agent and am waiting a reply.

Bez....I am not sure what you mean by stringing you along???

Have you called back the vet that did the fecal exam?
I'm not familiar with a Safeguard product that is administered 5 days in a row, not to say there isn't. An oral or injectible wormer is better than a pour-on, so I'm glad you went with an oral treatment.
There are worms that Safeguard does not get, ask the vet if you need to use another product the next time you worm. Worming is a regular process, not a one time event you do when calves look sickly.
It'd probably be good to get a test run on the hay to get a good idea of the quality. Even good suppliers sell crappy hay, if that's all you want to pay for it.
As others said, how many pounds of the grain/day, and what protein %? Have you changed how much you feed since they got sick?
How thin are these calves? If you feel along side the backbone just behind the shoulders can you feel where the ribs attach or is it filled in with flesh? Can you feel all the ribs through the midsection, or a few?

"stringing us along" -- trying to bait us, feeding us a line, etc. We sometimes have people come here with a story and ask for help to fix something with their animals that could be due to neglect, or ill-advised good intentions. Sometimes they turn out to be 'PETA' types just stirring up a fuss.
Good luck with getting your calves healthy.

Not a PETA person(0: I came back from being out of town and the calves looked really bad.

Protein % is 12. Appox. 1 cup 3x a day.

I haven't gotten back with the original vet as she is out of town for the holidays.

Got a vet coming out in the morning; the county extension agent got me a name and number.

Thanks everyone for your help. Will let you know what the vet says tomorrow.

 

[Chris H]

Sounds great to have the vet coming out in the morning. Pick his/her brain about your overall herd health, worming & vaccination schedules, feeding protocol. Since you have cows running with the bull then you'll be having calves at some time, you want to be sure those cows are in good health so they can deliver & raise healthy calves.

Unless you have plenty of pasture or good hay, then 3 cups of feed per head per day probably is not enough.

Be sure to let us know what the vet says.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

SHOW the vet what you are feeding - grain & hay & how much.

 

[greybeard]

Protein % is 12. Appox. 1 cup 3x a day.

It better be some dang good hay, a really big cup or her location is in deep south Fla where ther'es still some green forage for them. 1 measuring cup equals about 3 range cubes crumbled up. That's 9 range cubes each and unknown quantity and quality of hay/day for a 6 month and 12 month animal.

Not knowing what worm load the calves might still have, or how bad the anemia is, it's hard to suggest a treatment. That loose stools thing and poor condition brings up the thought of Johnes tho.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Johnes would not show up yet. RARELY shows any sign until they are calving 2 year olds. Can't even test for it until they are two.

Suzie - good luck with the vet this morning. Hope he/she can give you some good ideas as to what to do. To all of us that cannot SEE your cattle, it sounds like nutritional.

 

[chippie]

Sounds like they are not getting enough to eat and the worm load did a number on them. We have a 6 month old heifer who is getting free choice hay, and 2 1/2 pounds of heifer conditioner feed in a creep feeder daily. That is a normal feed scoop full. It holds about 2 1/2 lbs.

This is a suggestion. Every time you look at your cattle, look at them as if they were not yours and you had never seen them before.
An animal can get in bad condition without you realizing it. You see them everyday and it is easy to not notice the decline, especially when it is gradual.

I didn't see where you live (that information can help the other posters here give you valuable info). If your weather has been mild, and it became colder while you were gone, probably caused the cattle to fall off quickly.

What sort of shape are your other cattle? Fat, thin?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Check out this site for body condition of your cattle.
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/beef/400-795/photos1-9.html