Color change out of the blue

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Schmitty

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Salem Iregon
So I have a baffling scenario, at least to me. So we have a small herd of white faced Hereford’s. The cows and bull are all the standard black and white, so far they have thrown the same color patterns and predominantly males with the exception of one solid black bull calf. Then the last two one born four months ago and the other yesterday have been brown and white heifers. The four month old one does have black eye patches but otherwise is brown and white. I know brown is not an uncommon color pattern, but for the last four years they have thrown calves in the black or black/white colors and males. I know as far as the male/female thing, they’re all healthy. But is a color change normal? They are pastured, have good Haylage access, fresh clean water, trace mineral block, pelletized grass seed grains, they’re stress free, no chemicals, environmental changes or health issues. I’m probably overthinking this, I should just be happy with the fact they are breeding and healthy. Just curious about the sudden change.
 
Over the past couple years I've put black bulls (Angus and SimAngus) on a variety of non-black cows (red Angus, red Baldy, Gelbvieh, Corriente, Stabilizer, South Poll). The calves have varied from what I would call medium/chocolate brown to jet black at birth with a few white patches on some of them. The ones that started out brown grew darker with age and were fully black by weaning age.
 
Mighty Mouse said:
Over the past couple years I've put black bulls (Angus and SimAngus) on a variety of non-black cows (red Angus, red Baldy, Gelbvieh, Corriente, Stabilizer, South Poll). The calves have varied from what I would call medium/chocolate brown to jet black at birth with a few white patches on some of them. The ones that started out brown grew darker with age and were fully black by weaning age.
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The four month old one is definitely darkening up, still noticeably brown but not as light colored brown as when born or as the one born yesterday. I remember when we raised the dexter we had some that were more red over black. But usually darkened up.
 
Schmitty said:
So I have a baffling scenario, at least to me. So we have a small herd of white faced Hereford’s. The cows and bull are all the standard black and white, so far they have thrown the same color patterns and predominantly males with the exception of one solid black bull calf. Then the last two one born four months ago and the other yesterday have been brown and white heifers. The four month old one does have black eye patches but otherwise is brown and white. I know brown is not an uncommon color pattern, but for the last four years they have thrown calves in the black or black/white colors and males. I know as far as the male/female thing, they’re all healthy. But is a color change normal? They are pastured, have good Haylage access, fresh clean water, trace mineral block, pelletized grass seed grains, they’re stress free, no chemicals, environmental changes or health issues. I’m probably overthinking this, I should just be happy with the fact they are breeding and healthy. Just curious about the sudden change.
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Herefords are red and white.

Hereford cows with newborn calves in the meadow


If you have animals that are black, they are a cross between a Hereford and something that is black. Generally they are called "black baldy" because they have white faces from the Hereford. Recently there are people selling "black Herefords" as a breed... but they are Hereford crossed with something that is homozygous black in color. So your black cattle may carry red genes and may throw red or black calves, including solid black calves.

Post some pictures...
 
Not sure what is going on their breed wise. Herefords are traditionally red with a white face. Some folks have made up a breed called black Hereford which is bred up from starting with what I call a BWF (Angus and Hereford cross) and breeding to a traditional Hereford and using the resulting BWF individuals to breed up to high percentage Herefords that retain the black body and white face.
I’m not sure if you are saying you have those Black Herefords or the commercial first cross BWF,
Either way there are scenarios where some calves could be solid black, or even a red or red white faced calf would be possible.
Also sometimes even purebred black Angus calves can be quite brown at birth and darken to black with age.
As to bull and heifer calves it’s the luck of the draw so to speak.
 
When we bought the heifers they were being sold I think as black baldy and the bull was being called a White Face, I’ll attach some pics to see what you think.
 

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The top pick is the 4 month old brown heifer with the black eye patches next to the newborn calf. The pic next to the head squeeze is the bull and the other pics are mixed with the cows, the white legged one is a. 5 month bull calf, the one with one black eye is the one we just turned into a steer. The solid black one was a yearling bull calf that just went to auction.
 
The pictured red calf laying down and the one standing in the next picture are red and will stay that way. The others are black, that hair color will darken with age most likely.
Nothing wrong with any of it, it’s just that some are heterozygous black, meaning that they carry a red gene.
 
Ky hills said:
The pictured red calf laying down and the one standing in the next picture are red and will stay that way. The others are black, that hair color will darken with age most likely.
Nothing wrong with any of it, it’s just that some are heterozygous black, meaning that they carry a red gene.
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Perfect! I figured it was just a gene that was throwing the colors, just thought it was odd as every calf they had produced before was black and to get two red/brown back to back was unexpected. I’m guessing it’s got to be from the bulls genetics as it’s from two different cows and he’s the common denominator in it.
 
Schmitty said:
Perfect! I figured it was just a gene that was throwing the colors, just thought it was odd as every calf they had produced before was black and to get two red/brown back to back was unexpected. I’m guessing it’s got to be from the bulls genetics as it’s from two different cows and he’s the common denominator in it.
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Both the cow and the bull have to have a red gene to produce red calves.

This gets talked about on this site all the time. Your profile says you've joined in 2017. You must not visit much.
 
Travlr said:
Both the cow and the bull have to have a red gene to produce red calves.

This gets talked about on this site all the time. Your profile says you've joined in 2017. You must not visit much.
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Unfortunately I don’t get the chance to visit as much as I used to. That said my boys are taking on a lot of responsibilities on the farm more so I might actually get more free time to check out the site more. Thanks for the information for sure.
 
Schmitty said:
Unfortunately I don’t get the chance to visit as much as I used to. That said my boys are taking on a lot of responsibilities on the farm more so I might actually get more free time to check out the site more. Thanks for the information for sure.
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It's nice to hear from people. If you ever want to talk to people this is a decent site to do it.
 
The picture with the smallest calf with eye patches, I call those chocolate. I have a cow that color, her calves out of a hereford bull are mostly that color with a motley face and stay that color, she's had one black calf with very few white patches on face and chin from the same cross.
 
Little Joe said:
The picture with the smallest calf with eye patches, I call those chocolate. I have a cow that color, her calves out of a hereford bull are mostly that color with a motley face and stay that color, she's had one black calf with very few white patches on face and chin from the same cross.
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Just thought about this but 3 of her calves that were chocolate colored were bulls and the one that was black was a heifer.
 
Little Joe said:
Just thought about this but 3 of her calves that were chocolate colored were bulls and the one that was black was a heifer.
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I guess really what was more interesting to me wasn’t that they were different colors, sure I thought it was odd but more interesting that both were females and both the same color back to back. Not so much how are they this color, I get that they carry the gene as they are a mixed breed to get this result. I think it was more of a what’s the odds that the last two calves born are both red and female. lol, I guess what matters the most obviously is that they were born and born healthy. The mystery just gives it, well I guess something to think about. Thanks for all the info and advice on it, and I will definitely make more efforts to stay up on the conversations and share more of my thoughts and experiences.
 
You can have an all black cow, and an all black bull... if they both happen to have a recessive red gene, you'll get a red calf. Throw in the Hereford ancestry (baldy), and you may end up with a red "baldy"... i.e.: Hereford paint job.
 
I could go out in the field and get all sorts of picture of different pictures from Hereford, red Hereford cross, black whiteface, and black cows. You know what Forest Gump's mother said about a box of chocolate.
 
Dave said:
I could go out in the field and get all sorts of picture of different pictures from Hereford, red Hereford cross, black whiteface, and black cows. You know what Forest Gump's mother said about a box of chocolate.
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same here, you’re exactly right.
 
@Schmitty. Your bull is definitely heterozygous for black, and so are the cows that had red calves. The cows that have black calves could be either homo for black, which means they will always have a black calf, or hetero which means they have a 25% chance of throwing a red calf, by that bull.
 

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