This sounds like the way we live life. All bills are setup to auto draft and we don't worry about much. If we need it or it's broke we buy it or fix it. Pretty simple plan that seems to work.
Are Most Producers Inefficient?
- Thread starter rocfarm
- Start date
Seen a few people starve they're business to death.
Im sorry, to personal??Good luck with that.I call it like I see it.
RDFF
Well-known member
Yeah, well, my Dad can beat up your Dad............ :ROFLMAO:
Little Joe
Well-known member
There’s lot of variation in home prices across Arkansas depending on the area. In eastern Arkansas you can find pretty nice houses for 50-100k, in my area you won’t buy a property with a well used mobile home for 50k. 6-7k for 100 acres or so is the going rate in my area, smaller tracts of 10 acres or less are 10k/ acre or more depending on location. It’s nuts. Lots of big places being sold in 5-10 acre tracts. As I mentioned, in NW Arkansas it’s much higher. I’ve not seen land anywhere in Arkansas less than 5k/ acre since COVID.
Last edited:
I put in mileage. Empty miles I use the IRS number, generally rounded up to the dime. Loaded miles I use the market rate for hauling. If I haul in a 80k truck vs a 10k truck thats on me. Market rate is always the most fair, and honest way I know to do it.
Why would the spreadsheet say its a bad investment? I guess Im confused. A spreadsheet doesnt stop you from buying some thing, it just labels it for you, to review later. You can save or spend as much as you want, the spreadsheet doesnt care.
When I bought the cottonseed feeder I was in the same boat. The spreadsheet didnt stop me. In fact, it helped me justify it because I account for hours and miles. If you dont, you may not see it on paper with those types of deals. Its still easy enough to just scribble on a yellow pad the purchase price, value down the road, and then divide that by the head for the estimated years of service. You probably saw the reality was it didn't add much to a calf over 5, 10, 20 yrs, plus it saved you money on feed. Our only rule is we cash flow "savings" purchases.
Every one I deal with operates like this in their professional settings. We all run budgets, code expenses, separate capital expenses vs operating ,etc. Its makes it a lot easier because every one is speaking the same language.
No, I just know what the most effecient use of my time is. Keep track of your time and you will to.
I thought we were talking about how much to raise a calf. Are you drunk or crawfishin.No, I just know what the most effecient use of my time is. Keep track of your time and you will to.
In all seriousness.
Id like to see on of these spreadsheets everyone's been called names over.
Id like to see on of these spreadsheets everyone's been called names over.
You didnt bother me years ago... you arent bothering me now.I thought we were talking about how much to raise a calf. Are you drunk or crawfishin.
Travlr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2022
- Messages
- 8,990
- City & State/Province
- NW Arkansas, W South Dakota, retired in Utah
Been watching the thread and reading most posts pretty thoroughly, but not really seeing any efficiency in debating fixed costs like real estate once it is bought. And rental property depends on cost and distance, which create their own relatively fixed costs.
A couple of the great efficiencies I worked to develop was no cost/least cost hay. I reserved ground to take hay off of, but I never did it myself. A 50/50 split worked for me. The only equipment cost was bringing the bales to the road so the guy cutting the hay could choose which stack he wanted. And then putting my own stack in the barn, and feeding it as needed. My dollar cost other than stacking hay, real estate taxes. I grazed the field between cuttings so we only did two a year and I never fertilized.
Another efficiency I used to work for me was using the best cattle I could find, as opposed to the most expensive or least expensive. I bought animals at market prices, but tended to be in the upper 50 percentile because the cattle where more likely to throw calves that would top the market with the right bull... and with no supplemental feed. I never fed any kinds of supplements to cows or calves unless I was feeding something to finish for my own freezer. My place in SD had two large grain bins when I bought the place, and I never used them. I always felt it was more efficient to use genetics to build a better calf than using feed, and I'd say my numbers would support that idea.
A couple of the great efficiencies I worked to develop was no cost/least cost hay. I reserved ground to take hay off of, but I never did it myself. A 50/50 split worked for me. The only equipment cost was bringing the bales to the road so the guy cutting the hay could choose which stack he wanted. And then putting my own stack in the barn, and feeding it as needed. My dollar cost other than stacking hay, real estate taxes. I grazed the field between cuttings so we only did two a year and I never fertilized.
Another efficiency I used to work for me was using the best cattle I could find, as opposed to the most expensive or least expensive. I bought animals at market prices, but tended to be in the upper 50 percentile because the cattle where more likely to throw calves that would top the market with the right bull... and with no supplemental feed. I never fed any kinds of supplements to cows or calves unless I was feeding something to finish for my own freezer. My place in SD had two large grain bins when I bought the place, and I never used them. I always felt it was more efficient to use genetics to build a better calf than using feed, and I'd say my numbers would support that idea.
So you're drunk. I guess that means no spread sheet.
Ill get back to squandering my time.
Ill get back to squandering my time.
wbvs58
Well-known member
The cost goes down with each fish.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Had someone tell me the same lines about the houses in my area. Said I have to buy. If I don’t buy, I’m actually losing money.
They failed to calculate the opportunity cost.
If I had listened to them, I’d have a lot less net worth at this point in life and wouldn’t have the land I bought.
I do see that some people view the land as an investment. But are you saying you don’t view the interest paid as part of your cattle operation expenses? If so, I’d imagine a lot of people make a lot less than they think after deducting the compound interest/investment returns they could have gotten from that money somewhere else.
But, with the covid era inflation, that might not quite be the case now. Over the long term, purchasing a house to live in is not really an investment. It’s a lifestyle choice that people make. Case in point:
I know a lot of people that purchased land and a house for say, 85,000 a long time ago. they’ve lived in it for 30 years and it’s now worth 450,000. However, when asked about how much money they’ve put into maintaining it and upgrading, it’s somewhere in the neighborhood of 250000. Add in 30 years of inflation and the ‘profit’ ain’t near what people think it is. Add the taxes back and other hidden expenses, and maybe it’s just a break even. Then, add rent that would have been paid and unrecoverable, maybe they made a bit more than it looks like.
But in my area (the city), it is much cheaper to rent. If one is disciplined, then they can put the extra somewhere else and build wealth that is not tied up in an asset that isn’t really designed to be an investment.
Land is a bit different, I think. There’s not the upkeep and taxes that exist on a house, but the expenses can sure get out of control quick.
In the end, I still feel like the main point is that, if someone is going to go to the trouble of raising cattle. They should get paid for their investment and labor.
I love cattle myself. But I don’t view it as something I’d do for free.
I feel like too many people kind of do.
Good example: I was watching a YouTube video by a guy from A&M named Ron Gill, I think.
He said, “With cattle, it’s not about how much profit you are going to make. It’s about tolerable losses.” He was speaking to some retired and older folks, I think. The implication was that, when you’re older you can lose a bit of money at this hobby and it’s ok.
Again, I wouldn’t be interested. It seems like this view is beginning to prevail, too. Lots of people have figured out that if one doesn’t have the right setup, cattle raising doesn’t pay and is a headache. I know a few of them myself.
Some quick cowboy math shows I'm at $500 to get a calf from birth to sale day. This includes backgrounding them for 6 months and death loss. The ranch is worth 5 times what I paid 15 years ago. The calves are worth $2,600 a hd today. I suggest you find a new set of experts before you go broke.
We view land as a separate investment from cattle. Cattle pay a lease rate to the land.
Its the cleanest way to account for everything I am aware of.
Dave
Well-known member
Hmmmm In 8 years I don't remember B and myself ever going to town together. And I would like to know how you know the number of steps to my mailbox when i don't have a mailbox?
Ebenezer
Well-known member
Which bait has the most cost savings? Is there a spreadsheet to track bait versus fish?
RDFF
Well-known member
Need I remind y'all that my Dad can beat up your Dad........... Come on..........................
