Can someone translate the madness for me?

angus9259

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Dec 2, 2007
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This is Michigan. Prices always lower here than elsewhere I know, but I see this trend alot here - why would anyone pay $1375 for a black bottle baby (usually dairy cow/angus bull) or even up to $1200 for a holstein bull calf when you can pay the same $1200 for a 400 lb weaned calf? Must be a reason, I just don't know?

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This is Michigan. Prices always lower here than elsewhere I know, but I see this trend alot here - why would anyone pay $1375 for a black bottle baby (usually dairy cow/angus bull) or even up to $1200 for a holstein bull calf when you can pay the same $1200 for a 400 lb weaned calf? Must be a reason, I just don't know?

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I'm wondering why I go through the headache of taking a calf through weaning when I could get the same money letting the calf get some colostrum, and running them to the sale right after they are born.
 
How many calves were traded this week at that price? A very small sample of very small sector is not a trend.

Niche markets can be fabulous until there is a slight increase in supply.
Good point. I don’t know where the original poster is located, but around here. 25-30 years ago a stockyards about an hour north of here would have over 200 head of baby calves on some sale days. They would have a pretty steady market for them. Now you there’s just a handful if any baby calves at the markets since most dairy farms have quit milking.
Demand can get pretty high for those few calves between the calf traders and people that want a calf to graft on a cow.
I suspect most of the folks that used to buy calves to raise like I did are out of that business too as there just isn’t the market for dairy heifers that there used to be.
If it all of a sudden got to be commonplace to sell baby calves like that from beef cows on much of a scale, there wouldn’t be many buyers set up to raise them, and there’s just too much risk and overall management in doing that to be very appealing.
Another thing is those cows that had their young calves pulled off would very likely have a lot of ruined udders.
Might as well let the cows raise their calves and get the growth on the calves the natural way, those bigger calves weaned off of cows have been selling for over $2000-$2500. If you are maintaining cows you might as well get the extra money that that would be left in the table.
I used to have folks wanting to buy my registered bull calves young, for several hundred less than I’d figure to get for them as yearlings. It never sounded like a good plan to me as if I have the cows I want them raising their calves and getting as much size in them as possible with minimal extra investment over what I put toward the cows.
 
I called the stock yard. I didn't ask the exact numbers but his response is simply - we have more demand for calves right from momma (bottle) than we do for weaned calves. Obviously, not rocket science, but why would anyone be such a person? Why would you put $1200 out there for a calf you had to keep alive for 5 months to make it worth $1200 as a 400 pounder? It's not a huge sale barn - nothing in Michigan is huge - but these are not just hobby buyers who want a pet either. This is what it looks like week in and week out. That's why I called the guy because I just thought there was something I was missing. He said - "there's not". I guess if you're getting $5 for a 4 wt like other states, it would make sense. But when your 4 wts are $3 ... what the???
 
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I will call his ''answer'' BS.I find the sale report of ''light weight'' and ''heavy weight'' to be the big clue. If it is not to far away you should go watch a sale or two and see with your own eyes.

If they can not give a weight range with prices there is a reason.
 
This is why we always send our cattle to auction. Most of them will fall into the expected category but a few fall into the I'll show you to bid category. People get crazy at auctions.

Years ago I had a guy stare me down and run me up on a feed truck at an auction. I won and was happy with the price I paid but told my buddy I was fixin to buy two feed trucks. I ran the guy up on the next truck like he did me. Luckily common sense came in and I gave up. We were 4 hours from home and could only carry one of these junkers at a time back. 😆 Never thought I'd do that but the bidding got the better of me.
 
The calf prices are like that every day of the week in Wisconsin at the sale barns. Mostly beef on dairy crosses. It's not a big surprise to see 300+ run through each of the 2 closest sales to me, monday is usually the biggest day to sell them. Beef bull/heifer calves hit 1350 regularly, holstein bull calves hit 1000, holstein heifers hit 600. Under 85/90 pounds takes a big hit but over that and the sky is the limit. I would guess the "lightweight" was under 90lbs.
 
Confused me too sitting through an auction a few weeks ago. There were only 2-3 bidders with a few different numbers, most of the holstein calfs went around $1200 each, the all black ones up to $1500. When the 600lb all black feeders ran through, they went for the same price as the 100lb calves. I'd really like to know the specific market forces that drove that, but I don't know enough about the local market for live animals here yet.
 
We had a member here for a number of years. We got to follow Milkmaid through school, off to college and through vet school. When she was last posting here she was a full time vet at a "calf ranch" in southern Idaho. The land of mega dairies. If I remember correctly they were raising 10,000 Holstein bull calves at a time on that place. The last I heard from her she got married, was raising Labrador Retrievers and being a part time vet somewhere south of Idaho.
 
This is why we always send our cattle to auction. Most of them will fall into the expected category but a few fall into the I'll show you to bid category. People get crazy at auctions.

Years ago I had a guy stare me down and run me up on a feed truck at an auction. I won and was happy with the price I paid but told my buddy I was fixin to buy two feed trucks. I ran the guy up on the next truck like he did me. Luckily common sense came in and I gave up. We were 4 hours from home and could only carry one of these junkers at a time back. 😆 Never thought I'd do that but the bidding got the better of me.
Ain’t no friends at auction! :LOL:
 
We had a member here for a number of years. We got to follow Milkmaid through school, off to college and through vet school. When she was last posting here she was a full time vet at a "calf ranch" in southern Idaho. The land of mega dairies. If I remember correctly they were raising 10,000 Holstein bull calves at a time on that place. The last I heard from her she got married, was raising Labrador Retrievers and being a part time vet somewhere south of Idaho.
Milkmaid was a great poster. Excellent knowledge and experience. I remember this post years ago where she explained the cow necropsy process with words and pictures. At that time, pictures were loaded from a photo sharing service instead of being saved on the forum server. So most pictures are long gone. But read the words and imagine the visual. I am not sure if she was already in vet school or not when she posted this. But her knowledge and ability and willingness to share were impressive. Here is the link. Scroll up to the beginning of the post.
 
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We've had calf prices like this for quite a while now. Dairy usually brings a little less than straight beef but dairy/beef cross comes close. Currently holstein bull calves here are $800. A few weeks ago they were over $1,000. Full beef $1,500-$2,000 for drop calves. Can't make it pencil out even with a nurse cow doing the feeding. Just shipped a good holstein steer at 6 months and got $1,300. Not worth it other than he helped keep the cow nursed down so I didn't have to milk every day. I can not seem to get a straight answer on how anyone can make it pencil out at these prices. Especially since a lot of them seem to die.
 
We've had calf prices like this for quite a while now. Dairy usually brings a little less than straight beef but dairy/beef cross comes close. Currently holstein bull calves here are $800. A few weeks ago they were over $1,000. Full beef $1,500-$2,000 for drop calves. Can't make it pencil out even with a nurse cow doing the feeding. Just shipped a good holstein steer at 6 months and got $1,300. Not worth it other than he helped keep the cow nursed down so I didn't have to milk every day. I can not seem to get a straight answer on how anyone can make it pencil out at these prices. Especially since a lot of them seem to die.
I think these prices are making a lot of people with no experience interested in beef. Anybody with an acre of grass or a place they can feed. Either because they want to raise beef for their own families or because they think they can get rich. So that sets up a scenario where everyone is competing for anything available. An artificial market where demand has little to do with value. Maybe even some panic buying.
There have been several examples historically where a market becomes saturated and prices soar due to speculation rather than utility. Probably the one that's most famous was the tulip bubble in Holland when desirable flower bulbs would demand outrageous prices. Some bulbs were valued at the cost of a upper scale home. At some point very rich people entered the market and competed for tulip bulbs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania This may be happening now with cattle. There are a lot of ranches that have been purchased in the last decades and turned into hunting preserves, cattle not really a priority. But with these prices these wealthy owners are suddenly seeing cattle as an investment. The more they compete for livestock, the higher the prices will go, and the more wealthy people will suddenly get interested in buying at any price. It's a bubble.
 
I fall calve. Was going to cull some cows this spring before I had to buy feed for them instead of raising "one more calf" on them. However, if I can get a weaned calf price on a drop calf, why not let her calve, let the calf get it's colostrum and split them at the sale barn that same week? Why not do that with all of the cows and save on the extra feed I have to buy for nursing cows and calves till they get to weaning?
 
I fall calve. Was going to cull some cows this spring before I had to buy feed for them instead of raising "one more calf" on them. However, if I can get a weaned calf price on a drop calf, why not let her calve, let the calf get it's colostrum and split them at the sale barn that same week? Why not do that with all of the cows and save on the extra feed I have to buy for nursing cows and calves till they get to weaning?
I did exact thing with one last year, and I have two I’m doing the same with this spring. The cow last year was pretty old and fairly thin. These will be the same. It worked out better by about $400 than just selling a heavy bred skinny old cow where I’m at anyway.
 
Yes the calf off the old cull cow may ring $1000 but the calf will also make you $6 a day for 7 months with the cow doing all the work. Well at least this works for spring born calves. You have hay costs in the winter but the math will still work.

Probably the best of all worlds is to calve in early spring and sell in mid-summer. Cow and calf are probably in good shape by then and the 400 lb calf will bring close to $2000. I have about 20 on this program with the first calf being born yesterday. The old cruddy cow weighs 980 lbs and I paid $1300 for her in September as a 5 month bred.
 
Yes the calf off the old cull cow may ring $1000 but the calf will also make you $6 a day for 7 months with the cow doing all the work. Well at least this works for spring born calves. You have hay costs in the winter but the math will still work.

Probably the best of all worlds is to calve in early spring and sell in mid-summer. Cow and calf are probably in good shape by then and the 400 lb calf will bring close to $2000. I have about 20 on this program with the first calf being born yesterday. The old cruddy cow weighs 980 lbs and I paid $1300 for her in September as a 5 month bred.
And that may be how one or both of these cows turn out. Would be ideal. I’ll find out within a month. But if they don’t go that way, then they will be split at the barn. This isn’t a program here, they have been in the herd a long time.
 

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