Wintering Cattle on Stockpiled Forage in Central Texas

Gather App
UnlistMe
Inventry
Lucky said:
If you do this find a way to keep it covered.

Our weather patterns have been the same as you describe. I read a pretty good article on open cows this week and it said heavy Spring to early Summer rains will contribute to more cows being open in areas that have a spring/summer breeding season. A friend had told me this but I kinda dismissed it. The article stated the grass is growing so fast the feed value starts to fall off. Cattle need increasing protein to breed so they recommend supplements during these times.
Click to expand...

Got an 80-year-old barn that I’m trying to figure out how to use to store hay. But cattle prices haven’t justified any new facilities yet, so improvements like a hay barn don’t make sense. Maybe someday, though.

Yeah, I saw your other post about breed up but didn’t comment because my thoughts would be conjecture.

My place has lots of 1 to 3% slope. I’ve noticed that in periods that are super wet, the lower parts’ grass slows down and the cows don’t eat it as much. Last spring they were hanging out a lot in the higher/more well-drained parts of my place—maybe because that grass had a little drier ground and better nutrition? Hadn’t thought about it from that angle so much.

I’m starting to become convinced of a few things:

1) Lower stocking rate leads to more sustainable profits and less risk of a major blowup. It’s easier on the land and cows, and one is less likely to end up with stressed cattle competing for scarce resources. Less competition leads to fewer fertility problems.

2) Diversity of forage probably leads to healthier cattle and likely better longevity. To me, there seems to be an advantage to cows being able to graze improved grasses like Klein when they wish, but also be able to select from at least 15 to 20+ other species of grasses and forbs out there. I wonder if it keeps their minerals and micronutrients in better balance, even if one does provide the standard supplementation. Not sure if there’s any research on this line of thought, but it’d be interesting to read, I bet.

3) Fall calving and winter breeding have a lot of advantages over spring calving and summer breeding. Texas winters barely bother cattle. They’re friskier in winter and the bulls are less stressed when breeding in the cool weather IMO. Also, it’s pretty easy to have cows in a good BCS by fall each year as they’ve had the whole spring and summer to fatten up, usually with good rotations to quality grass in all but July and August, and even then there’s still usually some quality stuff out there. I’ve yet to have any issues with fall breedup. Actually, every 14+month-old female on my place has always gotten bred. And fall-born calves tend to be lighter on average at birth but have heavier weights at sale time because of the extra time on momma and grass before weaning.

Hope you figure out your breedup issue. 35% open is quite a hit to the calf crop.
 
rocfarm said:
But cattle prices haven’t justified any new facilities yet, so improvements like a hay barn don’t make sense.
Click to expand...
You think cattle aren't profitable right now and prices don't warrant improvements?
rocfarm said:
Hope you figure out your breedup issue. 35% open is quite a hit to the calf crop.
Click to expand...
We had a 44% open rate last year and couldn't figure out why. This year we had a 15% open rate. I was happy with the 15% as we had allot of 3 year olds frome buying heifers to replace opens from the year before. 3 year olds are always the hardest to get bred back.

I hope everything works out in your favor. We have totally opposite views on the cattle game but it's interesting to look at others plans and see how they work out. I never think if I had less cattle my feed bills would be less and I'd have more grass. I tend to think if I had more cattle I could make more money to improve the grass I have and then buy more cattle to get a bigger check. Everyone needs to play their own game.
 
Lucky said:
You think cattle aren't profitable right now and prices don't warrant improvements?

We had a 44% open rate last year and couldn't figure out why. This year we had a 15% open rate. I was happy with the 15% as we had allot of 3 year olds frome buying heifers to replace opens from the year before. 3 year olds are always the hardest to get bred back.

I hope everything works out in your favor. We have totally opposite views on the cattle game but it's interesting to look at others plans and see how they work out. I never think if I had less cattle my feed bills would be less and I'd have more grass. I tend to think if I had more cattle I could make more money to improve the grass I have and then buy more cattle to get a bigger check. Everyone needs to play their own game.
Click to expand...

As far as improvements, I’ve been making them—I have reinvested every earned dollar and a bit more into improved genetics lately and made a medium-term deal to produce cattle for a set buyer.

I just said my cattle don’t warrant a $35000 shop with an 4” slab and attached hay shed/awning—yet. If prices are still high 3 years from now and my deal turns out to be profitable, we’ll see. I have been researching it.

As far as cattle operations’ profitability, check this out. It seems spending more on pasture and less on feed is the way to go. He starts making the point at about the three minute mark.

 
kenny thomas said:
I am not familiar with your forage or it's potential for stockpiling. You mention using 30% tubs but not what the protein of your stockpile forage is.
Is stockpile alone enough, are the tubs needed, do you need more of something? None of this can be answered without forage testing what you have. And if you have multiple fields test each one. It only takes a couple minutes per field and then you know what you have.
I tested stockpiled fescue December, January, and Feburary, i think last year. It still was sufficient for the cattle without supplement until I fed hay in March.
Click to expand...
@kenny thomas, are you going to test your stockpiled forage on a monthly basis again this year? I'm curious to see how it compares across years.

Stockpiled forage in this area can't compete with stockpiled tall fescue that @kenny thomas has, but it can be adequate/enough on a protein percentage, depending on your livestock requirements. Testing stockpiled forage over time as you are implying is important in this area as the stockpile here breaks down much faster over the winter months (forage species dependent) than the tall fescue in other parts of the nation.
 
rocfarm said:
Got an 80-year-old barn that I’m trying to figure out how to use to store hay. But cattle prices haven’t justified any new facilities yet, so improvements like a hay barn don’t make sense. Maybe someday, though.

Yeah, I saw your other post about breed up but didn’t comment because my thoughts would be conjecture.

My place has lots of 1 to 3% slope. I’ve noticed that in periods that are super wet, the lower parts’ grass slows down and the cows don’t eat it as much. Last spring they were hanging out a lot in the higher/more well-drained parts of my place—maybe because that grass had a little drier ground and better nutrition? Hadn’t thought about it from that angle so much.

I’m starting to become convinced of a few things:

1) Lower stocking rate leads to more sustainable profits and less risk of a major blowup. It’s easier on the land and cows, and one is less likely to end up with stressed cattle competing for scarce resources. Less competition leads to fewer fertility problems.

2) Diversity of forage probably leads to healthier cattle and likely better longevity. To me, there seems to be an advantage to cows being able to graze improved grasses like Klein when they wish, but also be able to select from at least 15 to 20+ other species of grasses and forbs out there. I wonder if it keeps their minerals and micronutrients in better balance, even if one does provide the standard supplementation. Not sure if there’s any research on this line of thought, but it’d be interesting to read, I bet.

3) Fall calving and winter breeding have a lot of advantages over spring calving and summer breeding. Texas winters barely bother cattle. They’re friskier in winter and the bulls are less stressed when breeding in the cool weather IMO. Also, it’s pretty easy to have cows in a good BCS by fall each year as they’ve had the whole spring and summer to fatten up, usually with good rotations to quality grass in all but July and August, and even then there’s still usually some quality stuff out there. I’ve yet to have any issues with fall breedup. Actually, every 14+month-old female on my place has always gotten bred. And fall-born calves tend to be lighter on average at birth but have heavier weights at sale time because of the extra time on momma and grass before weaning.

Hope you figure out your breedup issue. 35% open is quite a hit to the calf crop.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you are convinced on these few things, but you might stop and ask yourself 'why' do these things work? You are correct about keeping minerals and micronutrients in better balance as this is a more balanced diet for the cattle. You made one point that I'll offer a word of caution on though. You said "...be able to select from at least 15 to 20+ other species of grasses and forbs out there." You used the word select. You actually want to minimize the selection the livestock do. This decreased selection results in increased forage diversity which in turn increases microbial activity within the soil which leads to healthier soil with more nutrients and minerals available for forages which in turn results in more forage production. That in turn leads to less hay purchased/produced which leads to lower costs and therefore higher and more sustainable profits.
 
Mark Reynolds said:
I'm glad you are convinced on these few things, but you might stop and ask yourself 'why' do these things work? You are correct about keeping minerals and micronutrients in better balance as this is a more balanced diet for the cattle. You made one point that I'll offer a word of caution on though. You said "...be able to select from at least 15 to 20+ other species of grasses and forbs out there." You used the word select. You actually want to minimize the selection the livestock do. This decreased selection results in increased forage diversity which in turn increases microbial activity within the soil which leads to healthier soil with more nutrients and minerals available for forages which in turn results in more forage production. That in turn leads to less hay purchased/produced which leads to lower costs and therefore higher and more sustainable profits.
Click to expand...
I think I get your point, but I also know that cattle tend to pick what they want to eat first. I am working on calibrating my cattle rotation, but it will still take a while. As far as diversity, we’re doing pretty good. This year we had an explosion of Indian grass in a few of our paddocks, the experts seem to agree that Indian grass is an indicator of a healthy ecosystem.

But we definitely undergrazed a few paddocks this year. Got a plan in place for next spring to do a bit better.
 

Attachments

  • httpsagrilife.orgwesttexasrangelandsfiles202303popular-perennial-grasses-Of-the-edwards-plate...jpeg
    httpsagrilife.orgwesttexasrangelandsfiles202303popular-perennial-grasses-Of-the-edwards-plate...jpeg
    856.7 KB
  • IMG_4385.jpeg
    IMG_4385.jpeg
    1.5 MB
Weber Hickory Wood Chunks Outdoor Cooking Fuel, 4 lb – Premium BBQ Smoking & Grilling Chips for Rich, Subtly Sweet Flavor – Ideal for Beef, Lamb, Poultry & Pork – Long Lasting
See price on Amazon
Weber Hickory Wood Chunks Outdoor Cooking Fuel, 4 lb – Premium BBQ Smoking & Grilling Chips for Rich, Subtly Sweet Flavor – Ideal for Beef, Lamb, Poultry & Pork – Long Lasting
Old Potters Smoker Wood Chunks 13-16 lbs for Grilling, Smoking, and Wood Fire Cooking ~ 2 x 3 Inches, (Hickory, 790 Cu in.)
See price on Amazon
Old Potters Smoker Wood Chunks 13-16 lbs for Grilling, Smoking, and Wood Fire Cooking ~ 2 x 3 Inches, (Hickory, 790 Cu in.)
Hickory Pizza Oven Wood 6 Inch, 15 lbs Box – Kiln Dried & Bark-Free Firewood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ Smoking & Grilling – Premium Hickory Wood Logs for Ooni, Gozney, Solo Stove, Bertello
See price on Amazon
Hickory Pizza Oven Wood 6 Inch, 15 lbs Box – Kiln Dried & Bark-Free Firewood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ Smoking & Grilling – Premium Hickory Wood Logs for Ooni, Gozney, Solo Stove, Bertello
Firewood Central Kiln-Dried PA Hickory – 8” Splits (Approx 39.5 lb) – Bold Smoking Wood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ & Fire Pits – Easy Light, Low Smoke, USA Sourced
See price on Amazon
Firewood Central Kiln-Dried PA Hickory – 8” Splits (Approx 39.5 lb) – Bold Smoking Wood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ & Fire Pits – Easy Light, Low Smoke, USA Sourced
Firewood Central Kiln-Dried PA Hickory – 6” Splits (Approx. 42 lb) – Bold Smoking Wood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ & Fire Pits – Easy Light, Low Smoke, USA Sourced
See price on Amazon
Firewood Central Kiln-Dried PA Hickory – 6” Splits (Approx. 42 lb) – Bold Smoking Wood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ & Fire Pits – Easy Light, Low Smoke, USA Sourced
Greenworks 24V 6in BL Pruning Saw w/Auto Oiler, Tool Only
See price on Amazon
Greenworks 24V 6in BL Pruning Saw w/Auto Oiler, Tool Only
Old Potters Kiln Dried Firewood - Cherry, 1100 Cu. in, 16-18 Logs ~ 8" x 2.5" Logs. Solo Stove and Cooking Wood for Grilling, Smoking, and Firepits, Cherry.
See price on Amazon
Old Potters Kiln Dried Firewood - Cherry, 1100 Cu. in, 16-18 Logs ~ 8" x 2.5" Logs. Solo Stove and Cooking Wood for Grilling, Smoking, and Firepits, Cherry.
Heritage Smoke Wood Hickory Pizza Oven Wood with Fire Starter - Kiln Dried Firewood 6" Hardwood Logs for Brick Fire Pizza Ovens & Grills, 6 lb, Low Smoke, High Heat, Competition-Grade Clean Burn
See price on Amazon
Heritage Smoke Wood Hickory Pizza Oven Wood with Fire Starter - Kiln Dried Firewood 6" Hardwood Logs for Brick Fire Pizza Ovens & Grills, 6 lb, Low Smoke, High Heat, Competition-Grade Clean Burn
39" Fire Pits with Wood Storage for Outside, Large Wood Burning Outdoor Fireplace with Chimney, Mesh Spark Screen & Fire Poker, Idea for Backyard, Patio, Party, Camping, Picnic
See price on Amazon
39" Fire Pits with Wood Storage for Outside, Large Wood Burning Outdoor Fireplace with Chimney, Mesh Spark Screen & Fire Poker, Idea for Backyard, Patio, Party, Camping, Picnic
Smoak Firewood Cooking Wood Mini Splits - USDA Certified Kiln Dried Pizza Oven Wood, Grilling Wood, Smoking Wood, BBQing Wood (8inch Pieces, 25-30lbs 1728 Cubic in - Hickory)
See price on Amazon
Smoak Firewood Cooking Wood Mini Splits - USDA Certified Kiln Dried Pizza Oven Wood, Grilling Wood, Smoking Wood, BBQing Wood (8inch Pieces, 25-30lbs 1728 Cubic in - Hickory)
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Product prices and availability are accurate as of the date/time indicated and are subject to change.
Mark Reynolds said:
@kenny thomas, are you going to test your stockpiled forage on a monthly basis again this year? I'm curious to see how it compares across years.

Stockpiled forage in this area can't compete with stockpiled tall fescue that @kenny thomas has, but it can be adequate/enough on a protein percentage, depending on your livestock requirements. Testing stockpiled forage over time as you are implying is important in this area as the stockpile here breaks down much faster over the winter months (forage species dependent) than the tall fescue in other parts of the nation.
Click to expand...
@Mark Reynolds I probably will test but now as much. I would be comparing Apples to Oranges.
Couple of reasons why, around Labor Day when I should have spread Urea it got very dry here and stayed that way up into October. I did not spread the Urea because of that. I am also low on cow numbers so still should have plenty of grass but I'm not happy with not spreading Urea. I can tell a difference just by looking. I still think it will test 16% in December/January.
 
rocfarm said:
I think I get your point, but I also know that cattle tend to pick what they want to eat first. I am working on calibrating my cattle rotation, but it will still take a while. As far as diversity, we’re doing pretty good. This year we had an explosion of Indian grass in a few of our paddocks, the experts seem to agree that Indian grass is an indicator of a healthy ecosystem.

But we definitely undergrazed a few paddocks this year. Got a plan in place for next spring to do a bit better.
Click to expand...
They will. I'm not sure what your plan is, but if it is along the lines of giving them less of an area by dividing the pasture with a hotwire (or somehow) so they have less choice (or less to eat) utilization will increase and selectivity will decrease.

I wish you well with your plan.
 
I agree with @Mark Reynolds, you want to INCREASE the daily as grazed stocking density (not the ANNUAL stocking density per amount of acres you have available) by limiting their space, and then move them as necessary. If your goal is to move once a day, you might end up moving them 2-3 times a day to start, to figure out how much area that requires, which would be better than moving every 2-3 days, and then reducing the amount of area till you got it figured out. It'd be better to "give them too small of an area with too high of density", and then move them again, because they WON'T be as selective in what they consume. If you allow them to be "selective", they will eat the candy, and leave the stuff that you don't want in your pasture, which then will mean that THAT will be able to continue building roots and leaves and stalk AND SEED, more than the plants that they "selected". You want them to eat "just the tops" of everything. And they will, if you get your daily stocking density right, and are moving them often enough.
 
Last edited:
kenny thomas said:
@Mark Reynolds I probably will test but now as much. I would be comparing Apples to Oranges.
Couple of reasons why, around Labor Day when I should have spread Urea it got very dry here and stayed that way up into October. I did not spread the Urea because of that. I am also low on cow numbers so still should have plenty of grass but I'm not happy with not spreading Urea. I can tell a difference just by looking. I still think it will test 16% in December/January.
Click to expand...
I'm curious as to what the results will be.
 
RDFF said:
Texas Reintroduced 5,000 Bison Into Desert Plain.. What Happened Next Was Insane
Click to expand...
Read down through the comments... One commenter has presented different researches concerning no actual documented proof that this happened... giving examples of smaller reintroductions and the benefits, but cannot find any proof that this actually did happen... Not saying that bison are not instrumental in helping the land, and it has been shown... but there is nowhere that this is proven to have been done.
 
Mark Reynolds said:
They will. I'm not sure what your plan is, but if it is along the lines of giving them less of an area by dividing the pasture with a hotwire (or somehow) so they have less choice (or less to eat) utilization will increase and selectivity will decrease.

I wish you well with your plan.
Click to expand...
No way to move mine that often. Too labor intensive. But they’ll get moved differently for sure. Thanks for the input.
 
Brute 23 said:
Low stocking rates can be good and bad if not managed right. Good thing is you have grass. Bad thing is it may be a monoculture of poor grass that they left.
Click to expand...
Another negative is that you are slowly losing soil fertility. There are reductions which occur. Nitrogen would be the biggest. Every time a cow pee or poop there is leaching and volitilzation that happens. Having a healthy stand of nitrogen fixing legumes will help to replace these loses. One of the benefits of feeding imported hay is that you are importing nutrients from someone else's field
 
Dave said:
Another negative is that you are slowly losing soil fertility. There are reductions which occur. Nitrogen would be the biggest. Every time a cow pee or poop there is leaching and volitilzation that happens. Having a healthy stand of nitrogen fixing legumes will help to replace these loses. One of the benefits of feeding imported hay is that you are importing nutrients from someone else's field
Click to expand...
I have an old CRP field that the contract expired in 2020. Everywhere a cow has taken a pee the grass is twice as tall and darker green. Needs more pee spots.
 
Dave said:
That is a sure sign of a lack of nitrogen.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure it is deficient in a lot of nutrients. Most of the top soil blew away a few decades ago when it was farmed for wheat then it was in CRP for 30 years, which seems to not do much for soil building. I put pairs on it in late April and feed them on it to protect the native range when it is trying to get going. Importing nutrients by running hay through cows seems better than how it was treated the previous 80 or so years
 
GoWyo said:
I'm pretty sure it is deficient in a lot of nutrients. Most of the top soil blew away a few decades ago when it was farmed for wheat then it was in CRP for 30 years, which seems to not do much for soil building. I put pairs on it in late April and feed them on it to protect the native range when it is trying to get going. Importing nutrients by running hay through cows seems better than how it was treated the previous 80 or so years
Click to expand...
I totally agree that cattle on it is the best way. Feeding them brought in hay increases it a lot.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top