Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

Lucky · Aug 21, 2025

rocfarm said:
Hey @Lucky is your land irrigated? That would change the debt equation by quite a lot…

No irrigation. My neighbor installs pivots so we have looked into it but it's to costly for pasture land. We rely on the good lord for rain and right now we need some.

I'm not scared to borrow money when it makes sense for me to do so. Our cow herd has probably been paid for and borrowed against a dozen times over the years. Today they're paid for but I've got a sizeable operating loan against them that I can borrow from at anytime. The loan gives us freedom to get into other deals at anytime. This loan is a single pay loan but I can make an interest only payment on it if needed. I've been doing the same thing long enough to know what our calves will bring. We back ground them for 6 months or more and sell when we feel the time is right. This isn't for everyone but works for me.

rocfarm · Aug 21, 2025

Warren Allison said:
Any cattle... black, red or any other color,...needs shade and water. Dunno why people are so obsessed with wanting cattle to stand out in a pasture in the heat of the afternoon and graze. I have a neighbor that has mostly black Simms on both sides of the road my house is on. During the heat of the day, all of his cows.... the red ones and the Charolais too... will be laying under the trees chewing their cud. Or will be soaking in the ponds. As evening approaches, they will move out into the pastures... after about 5 or 6 PM, and graze all evening, night, and the next morning til about 10 or 11. The black ones are as fat and happy as the red and white ones.

But like @kenny thomas posted above, there is no reason to have a black cow at all. You just need a homo-for black bull. IMO, one does better to invest in the very best bull they can afford. A great bull on mediocre cows, will give you a much better calf crop, than a sale barn bull on top-notch cows. @gizmom raises some of the finest registered Angus I have seen. They are in Florida where it is hot and humid. several people on here have gotten bulls from them, and can attest to the honesty and integrity of these people, and to the quality of the cattle they produce.

Don't know how many cows you have, or what kind of facilities to handle them, but if you can AI...even if you have a vet out to do it...you can breed to the top $100k bulls there is, for a lot less than buying a quality bull.

Here ya go. I’ve noticed these same conclusion in my cattle as well if it’s over 100 degrees. But, if the cattle are moderate frame and BCS 5 slick-hided, have clean water and lots of shade, they are probably fine if they are black.

But 110 and the lighter-hided ones will do a whole lot better, I think. My first day on the farm after I closed it was 111F.

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=animalscifacpub
https://www.ars.usda.gov/plains-area/clay-center-ne/marc/documents/heat-stress/cattleriskfactors/

rocfarm · Aug 21, 2025

Lucky said:
No irrigation. My neighbor installs pivots so we have looked into it but it's to costly for pasture land. We rely on the good lord for rain and right now we need some.

I'm not scared to borrow money when it makes sense for me to do so. Our cow herd has probably been paid for and borrowed against a dozen times over the years. Today they're paid for but I've got a sizeable operating loan against them that I can borrow from at anytime. The loan gives us freedom to get into other deals at anytime. This loan is a single pay loan but I can make an interest only payment on it if needed. I've been doing the same thing long enough to know what our calves will bring. We back ground them for 6 months or more and sell when we feel the time is right. This isn't for everyone but works for me.

What’s your average yearly rainfall there? 36 to 40 inches?

Lucky · Aug 21, 2025

rocfarm said:
What's your average yearly rainfall there? 36 to 40 inches?

I think it's 50". We don't get much summer rain though. Lots of years June, July, August, and September are extremely dry. We rotate pastures and will supplement if needed. Ww have learned to adapt to the weather as best we can. Our stocking rate is around 1 to 5. Some years we could run more but give the pastures a rest instead. It's just a balancing game. I'm definitely no expert but have found what works for us. One thing we don't do that I see allot of people doing is change it up every year based on conditions. We do the same thing every year.

Travlr · Aug 21, 2025

mwj said:
Your area must have some poor buyers. The difference in cattle that are shrunk or overfilled stands out to a good buyer.

It doesn't happen that often, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And I'm sure once someone gets stung they learn, professional buyers or otherwise. It's definitely obvious when calves come into the sale ring looking like they are bloated.

Brute 23 · Aug 21, 2025

Little Joe said:
This right here is the main reason there are so many of us small producers. If I own land, I have to take care of it or manage it in some way. Without cattle, that is just an expense, with cattle it is an expense that comes off your taxes.
I want my cattle to produce enough income to take care of themselves, pay for pasture improvements and land improvements and some equipment all the while giving me a tax break while increasing the value of my land. Sometimes I question why I fool with cattle, especially when things don't go right. I get to thinking that if I applied as much time and effort into other business ventures as I do farming, the other ventures would be more profitable short term. But when you figure in the benefits I mentioned above plus the health benefits of farm work it looks better and most days I truly enjoy fooling with cattle and improving the land. I enjoy hearing people rave to others over how good my beef is. I guess to some people having front pasture pretty cows are that people brag about is the equivalent of the feeling I get when people brag about how good my beef is.

I remember your post from last time but you run a different game than like me, as an example. Your buyers judge you off a cut of meat. Our buyers want a a big, healthy, black, Angus influenced steer at the auction barn. It need to be in the #550-650 range at weaning to be most profitable for us, year in and year out.

A couple weeks ago I got the new hitch put in my new truck. I dropped some cattle off for my dad and as I'm pulling up to offload the guys start giving me hell. You know prices are good, first a new trailer now a new truck. It's all in good fun. We bs around town with them and the owner. The know if I'm dropping off "my" or my dad's cattle and will start filing out the tickets. The guys that offload me even ask me about heifers and things some times for themselves amd I will tell them honestly, she didn't breed on time, or she is good just to wild for me, we have that relationship. One was looking for heifers and was asking about what I was dropping off and I told him don't mess with these, come to the ranch tomorrow and look at what we kept, and he did.

My honest question to you is, how long would I get away with hauling corriente cross calves in there before they realized what the deal is?

Remember, I'm texting the owner directly telling him what I'm sending him so he can market them for me days in advance a lot of times.

It was on this board that people use to tell me to get out there and mingle with your buyers at the auction barn. Tell them what you have to sell. It will be the most money you make on your cattle. I did that. It worked. I miss that knowledge on this board.

Travlr · Aug 21, 2025

Brute 23 said:
It was on this board that people use to tell me to get out there and mingle with your buyers at the auction barn. Tell them what you have to sell. It will be the most money you make on your cattle. I did that. It worked. I miss that knowledge on this board.

Amen, Brother... Reputations are built on good cattle, honesty, and relationships.

Little Joe · Aug 21, 2025

Brute 23 said:
I remember your post from last time but you run a different game than like me, as an example. Your buyers judge you off a cut of meat. Our buyers want a a big, healthy, black, Angus influenced steer at the auction barn. It need to be in the #550-650 range at weaning to be most profitable for us, year in and year out.

A couple weeks ago I got the new hitch put in my new truck. I dropped some cattle off for my dad and as I'm pulling up to offload the guys start giving me hell. You know prices are good, first a new trailer now a new truck. It's all in good fun. We bs around town with them and the owner. The know if I'm dropping off "my" or my dad's cattle and will start filing out the tickets. The guys that offload me even ask me about heifers and things some times for themselves amd I will tell them honestly, she didn't breed on time, or she is good just to wild for me, we have that relationship. One was looking for heifers and was asking about what I was dropping off and I told him don't mess with these, come to the ranch tomorrow and look at what we kept, and he did.

My honest question to you is, how long would I get away with hauling corriente cross calves in there before they realized what the deal is?

Remember, I'm texting the owner directly telling him what I'm sending him so he can market them for me days in advance a lot of times.

It was on this board that people use to tell me to get out there and mingle with your buyers at the auction barn. Tell them what you have to sell. It will be the most money you make on your cattle. I did that. It worked. I miss that knowledge on this board.

That's why I mentioned that spots, color and horns don't matter to me. I've seen some known criollo crosses sale at the barn and bring good money, I've seen some take a bath. I'd be less likely to mess with that type of cattle if I was going to the sale barn with the calves, in my situation, good beef and hanging weights are what matters, too big of a hanging weight can be bad as well. I really don't want them to hang over 700, over that you have a hard time finding customers that can afford it and the cuts get too big. 600-700 hw is what I shoot for. With that said, I know a guy that makes a living dealing with cattle and he always has a herd of criollo cattle somewhere. He works the sale barns, does day work and cuts hay as well as running his own cattle but always has some of that type as well as a lot of #2,#3 type cattle in general. I doubt he ever saves heifers, everything would be terminal.

Little Joe · Aug 21, 2025

Brute 23 said:
I remember your post from last time but you run a different game than like me, as an example. Your buyers judge you off a cut of meat. Our buyers want a a big, healthy, black, Angus influenced steer at the auction barn. It need to be in the #550-650 range at weaning to be most profitable for us, year in and year out.

A couple weeks ago I got the new hitch put in my new truck. I dropped some cattle off for my dad and as I'm pulling up to offload the guys start giving me hell. You know prices are good, first a new trailer now a new truck. It's all in good fun. We bs around town with them and the owner. The know if I'm dropping off "my" or my dad's cattle and will start filing out the tickets. The guys that offload me even ask me about heifers and things some times for themselves amd I will tell them honestly, she didn't breed on time, or she is good just to wild for me, we have that relationship. One was looking for heifers and was asking about what I was dropping off and I told him don't mess with these, come to the ranch tomorrow and look at what we kept, and he did.

My honest question to you is, how long would I get away with hauling corriente cross calves in there before they realized what the deal is?

Remember, I'm texting the owner directly telling him what I'm sending him so he can market them for me days in advance a lot of times.

It was on this board that people use to tell me to get out there and mingle with your buyers at the auction barn. Tell them what you have to sell. It will be the most money you make on your cattle. I did that. It worked. I miss that knowledge on this board.

I'm not arguing for or against them, I'm just saying it's a big world and we all have to make it work somehow and that might look different from one person to the next.

Brute 23 · Aug 21, 2025

Little Joe said:
I'm not arguing for or against them, I'm just saying it's a big world and we all have to make it work somehow and that might look different from one person to the next.

I got ya.

bird dog · Aug 21, 2025

I have a few of these criollo type cattle. Bred right they raise a nice calf. A question I have always had is what are the ones called that have the horns that grow down and in like this one? This little cow is a fine gentle animal. She only weighs about 850 but her last two calves have weaned off right at 485 lbs at 205 days. Her calves sell very close to #1's. The last one, a steer sold for $3.30 lb in early June.

I bought her cheap because her right horn was into the side of her head. A sawzall fixed that. If I had a scrubby ugly lease place, this is the type of cattle I would run on it.

rocfarm · Aug 21, 2025

Lucky said:
I think it's 50". We don't get much summer rain though. Lots of years June, July, August, and September are extremely dry. We rotate pastures and will supplement if needed. Ww have learned to adapt to the weather as best we can. Our stocking rate is around 1 to 5. Some years we could run more but give the pastures a rest instead. It's just a balancing game. I'm definitely no expert but have found what works for us. One thing we don't do that I see allot of people doing is change it up every year based on conditions. We do the same thing every year.

Wow. Lots of rain and a high stocking rate.

We’re at 1 head per 5 to 13 acres in central Texas. Our average is 32”.

Not uncommon to only get 20 inches. Then you have to change it up. No choice.

rocfarm · Aug 21, 2025

bird dog said:
I have a few of these criollo type cattle. Bred right they raise a nice calf. A question I have always had is what are the ones called that have the horns that grow down and in like this one? This little cow is a fine gentle animal. She only weighs about 850 but her last two calves have weaned off right at 485 lbs at 205 days. Her calves sell very close to #1's. The last one, a steer sold for $3.30 lb in early June.

I bought her cheap because her right horn was into the side of her head. A sawzall fixed that. If I had a scrubby ugly lease place, this is the type of cattle I would run on it. View attachment 61005

I’d call that a corriente-type cow. Crillo works well, too. It’s basically a mutt, I think.

How much did you pay and how much has she made you?

rocfarm · Aug 21, 2025

Travlr said:
It doesn't happen that often, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And I'm sure once someone gets stung they learn, professional buyers or otherwise. It's definitely obvious when calves come into the sale ring looking like they are bloated.

Was wondering why, sometimes some really fat #1s look like they go too low. Guess now I know.

I thought a lot of the buyers can tell if the calf has been on creep feed or just grass. When feed is cheap like right now, it seemed to me that the buyers were paying up for the ones that had just been on grass because they know that they can fatten them up a lot cheaply, especially in those first 60 to 90 days or so.

Lucky · Aug 21, 2025

rocfarm said:
Here ya go. I've noticed these same conclusion in my cattle as well if it's over 100 degrees. But, if the cattle are moderate frame and BCS 5 slick-hided, have clean water and lots of shade, they are probably fine if they are black.

But 110 and the lighter-hided ones will do a whole lot better, I think. My first day on the farm after I closed it was 111F.

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=animalscifacpub
https://www.ars.usda.gov/plains-area/clay-center-ne/marc/documents/heat-stress/cattleriskfactors/

I think Red Brangus would be the best all around cattle for Texas. There's a big outfit here that raises them and they seem to do really well with them. The only problem I see is the price to get started, they are high and hard to find.

rocfarm · Aug 21, 2025

Lucky said:
I think Red Brangus would be the best all around cattle for Texas. There's a big outfit here that raises them and they seem to do really well with them. The only problem I see is the price to get started, they are high and hard to find.

Yes, and when the homesteaders that have more money than sense get interested, the price is not only too high, the breeders are tempted not to cull in the right way.

There are good points on this in the South Poll thread.

And, contrary to what some believe, I think Brangus are still higher-strung than the other cattle. I know you have gentle cattle of every type, but, in general, Brahman blood in my herd is not preferable because of family factors.

And my experience at the last auction didn’t dissuade me. They had a lot of Brahman and Brahman influenced cattle. The whole group was obviously more flighty than the British and Continentals. So they still haven’t managed to fix that problem. Maybe in the future, but I doubt it.

One thing I did think I got right this last purchase is that all my new heifers come into the corral to me no problem, have a 4 ft flight zone, and don't spook easy at all.

After my first few years it feels luxurious.

As soon as I get a set of cows that breed on time and raise a calf, I'm going to cull all the flighty ones.

But the flighty ones have been the most consistent money makers to this point, so still giving it a bit of time.

Lucky · Aug 21, 2025

rocfarm said:
And, contrary to what some believe, I think Brangus are still higher-strung than the other cattle. I know you have gentle cattle of every type, but, in general, Brahman blood in my herd is not preferable because of family factors.

In December of 2023 we bought 20 Brangus bred heifers with some being 1/2 bloods. They are by far the prettiest group of heifers I've ever bought. In January of 2025 we bought 25 straight Angus bred heifers that were a really nice matched set. The Brangus heifers are high headed and still stick together. I wouldn't call them crazy but definitely not gentle. The Angus heifers on the other hand are easy going and will chase you down. Both groups are nice but I prefer the Brangus. We have Brangus and Ultrablack bulls on them now.

We have had Brangus cows that will eat out of your hand and Angus cattle that will try and take you out but those aren't the norms. In general Angus are gentle and Brangus are more high headed. Bulls are a different story though.

Brute 23 · Aug 21, 2025

If YOU have Brahman cross cattle that will eat your lunch it is YOUR fault. It is a choice, not rule.

People pin a lot of the blame for their decisions on the cattle so they don't have to take accountability for their choices.

There seems to be a link between people who make excuses for their cattle also making excuses for their choices.

Travlr · Aug 21, 2025

Brute 23 said:
If YOU have Brahman cross cattle that will eat your lunch it is YOUR fault. It is a choice, not rule.

People pin a lot of the blame for their decisions on the cattle so they don't have to take accountability for their choices.

There seems to be a link between people who make excuses for their cattle also making excuses for their choices.

Well there ARE brahman crosses that have natural attitudes and others that have been handled badly and have developed an attitude. Brahman crosses tend to be smarter. And they have long memories.

If I was to fault Angus as a breed I would say they also have some bad actors. Pretty obviously there are individuals, but a lot of the Angus and Angus crosses I have had seem to have cat personalities. They like you when they want something, but they are always on edge.

I like brahman crosses, but you have to be careful so they don't develop fear or aggression.

Brute 23 · Aug 22, 2025

Travlr said:
Well there ARE brahman crosses that have natural attitudes and others that have been handled badly and have developed an attitude. Brahman crosses tend to be smarter. And they have long memories.

If I was to fault Angus as a breed I would say they also have some bad actors. Pretty obviously there are individuals, but a lot of the Angus and Angus crosses I have had seem to have cat personalities. They like you when they want something, but they are always on edge.

I like brahman crosses, but you have to be careful so they don't develop fear or aggression.

You don't have to tell me. It's all I deal with, and all I have ever dealt with, and I will say it again. If you have Brahman crosses like that in your pasture, it's your fault. You choose to have them there every single day they are there.

Not all Brahamn crosses have an attitude and are hard to handle.

Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

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