If You Want to be a Cowboy Get a Job

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Warren Allison said:
I wasn't making a point, just always ask that question when ever someone says you can't buy good ones, that you have to raise them. And I see what you mean, about somebody that sells some and retains some too. Stands to reason they make keep their best. Yet, I have seen people who raise horses, cattle, dogs, whatever, that sells their best, and just keeps any that they don't want anyone knowing where they came from. And what about people who raise them specifically to sell for replacements, and retain none?
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I'm not going to play "What If's" all day long.

The main take away here is people who are pro buying always say why retain when you can buy and they can't accept that it's not an apples to apples comparison. We would be sacrificing some thing for convenience.

Are there better cattle out there some where, sure, but they aren't going to be in one of your enet links.
 
The point of the last essay was a bit deeper than the discussion about whether to buy or save replacements. The main focus is that the cattle business is cyclical. The truth is that when prices are high the market has consistently overcorrected for 150 years. Here is a letter to the editor that I saved that talks about how we in agriculture fall into the trap of over production.IMG_0627.jpeg
 
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One of the earliest grazing workshops I went to the key note speaker was an extension man from Nebraska. I can't remember his name 25 years later but I do remember that he wrote articles for Stockman Grass Farmer. Something which has stuck with me through the years was, "Every place has an unfair advantage. The secret to success is figuring out what that unfair advantage is and taking advantage of it." My advantage on the Washington coast was abundant cheap grass and a very poor cattle market. So I bought cattle for less in that poor market. Fed them for the summer on cheap grass. And was smart enough(?) to run enough numbers to fill a truck and ship to a good market.
 
Dave said:
One of the earliest grazing workshops I went to the key note speaker was an extension man from Nebraska. I can't remember his name 25 years later but I do remember that he wrote articles for Stockman Grass Farmer. Something which has stuck with me through the years was, "Every place has an unfair advantage. The secret to success is figuring out what that unfair advantage is and taking advantage of it." My advantage on the Washington coast was abundant cheap grass and a very poor cattle market. So I bought cattle for less in that poor market. Fed them for the summer on cheap grass. And was smart enough(?) to run enough numbers to fill a truck and ship to a good market.
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That "unfair advantage" translates to anyone starting or maintaining just about any business. I been spec building (my real job) most my adult life and my father before me. We also used our unfair advantage to succeed at it as well. Following the human herd the same as all will at best give you an equal advantage, no thanks..

Back to Cowboying, When my dad's 3 sons hit middle school, he had 3 unruly monsters as big as he was, fighting everyday, just full of piss and vinegar so he bought 100 acres and made us improve it by hand with just one little 40 hp tractor. Soon we had 50 head plus horses. We were also forced to wake up early on weekends to catch spaying for flies, catch up on worming in mouth of wild cattle from the sale yard, all that with a home made "squeeze" chute where we got banged up and learned to hold our own. Tackled calves in the pasture to worm and band them too (we learned to rope). We mowed the pasture so much you could walk barefoot. Good times. Today? well all three sons are now good earners, good fathers and do take care of business in all matters. Cowboying can pay off for your family that way too, no better life to raise to raise your kids with
 
Silver said:
I get irritated when I hear people say that we don't know what it costs to raise our own replacements. It's usually said by those who don't really know that much about the business to start with.
I've read about two paragraphs and I've concluded that the author is not worth reading.
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My pea brain says if people make a living selling bred first calf heifers, then I can do it cheaper. Plus I know the background on the animal
 
Getting cows bred. I took a RFP course several years ago. The instructor told us we should be calving on the flush of grass
My comment was there would be a lot of spoiled bags
He, maybe your cows milk too much
Me, calves need milk to grow.
I also made the argument that trying to get cows bred here is September when grass was losing quality would only result in more open cows or a longer calving interval.
He said he would have to think about that and never brought it up again.

I have since watched four operators go broke following the bs they push. I advise most who have asked that the business portion of the school is valuable for any business but the practical won’t help most producers.
 
gcreekrch said:
Getting cows bred. I took a RFP course several years ago. The instructor told us we should be calving on the flush of grass
My comment was there would be a lot of spoiled bags
He, maybe your cows milk too much
Me, calves need milk to grow.
I also made the argument that trying to get cows bred here is September when grass was losing quality would only result in more open cows or a longer calving interval.
He said he would have to think about that and never brought it up again.

I have since watched four operators go broke following the bs they push. I advise most who have asked that the business portion of the school is valuable for any business but the practical won't help most producers.
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When I was in school the thinking was that calving on snow kept the calves healthier. No navel ill or pathogens to make calves sick immediately, and when the grass comes on the calves are old/big enough to use what the cow provides.

I've seen people go broke too, and mostly by overthinking, over medicating, over feeding, and making everything more complicated than it needs to be. And those "experts" sure like to push their ideas when they are book smart but have little experience.
 
crossbreed said:
My pea brain says if people make a living selling bred first calf heifers, then I can do it cheaper. Plus I know the background on the animal
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I actually got really curious about this last week and worked it out. All in cash cost to raise my own heifers to 205 day weaning weight of first calf: $838.5 dollars. Minus paying rent for grazing, $137. This cost includes getting the heifer to calve at two and then raise that calf to 205 days and selling the calf right off the cow.

Breakdown is as follows:

Tub: $50
Mineral: $35
Grazing: $ 0.75 per day for 935 days = $701.25
Breeding: $50
Blackleg shot: $2

Total is $838. Again if subtract paying rent for the grazing, then $137. Also, in a good year like this last year, keeping back 3 heifers doesn’t even dent the grass that much. So if one times things right according to the rainfall, you can raise more heifers in a wet year and not miss a beat on your regular stocking rate.

With these numbers I don’t see how it would make sense to pick any up at the auction for 1300 to 1500 right now, unless it was for other reasons besides finances.

If I wanted to buy replacements, I’d buy 300 weights and still pay myself for the grass.

But every ranch has their own considerations, so I can see how others would do things different.

And I love that comment on knowing the background of an animal. If you have a certain system, there’s got to be value in your replacement being prenatally programmed for that system and also growing up in it. Should reduce risks, I’d think.
 
rocfarm said:
I actually got really curious about this last week and worked it out. All in cash cost to raise my own heifers to 205 day weaning weight of first calf: $838.5 dollars. Minus paying rent for grazing, $137. This cost includes getting the heifer to calve at two and then raise that calf to 205 days and selling the calf right off the cow.

Breakdown is as follows:

Tub: $50
Mineral: $35
Grazing: $ 0.75 per day for 935 days = $701.25
Breeding: $50
Blackleg shot: $2

Total is $838. Again if subtract paying rent for the grazing, then $137. Also, in a good year like this last year, keeping back 3 heifers doesn't even dent the grass that much. So if one times things right according to the rainfall, you can raise more heifers in a wet year and not miss a beat on your regular stocking rate.

With these numbers I don't see how it would make sense to pick any up at the auction for 1300 to 1500 right now, unless it was for other reasons besides finances.

If I wanted to buy replacements, I'd buy 300 weights and still pay myself for the grass.

But every ranch has their own considerations, so I can see how others would do things different.

And I love that comment on knowing the background of an animal. If you have a certain system, there's got to be value in your replacement being prenatally programmed for that system and also growing up in it. Should reduce risks, I'd think.
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But you forgot to add to it the money you DIDN'T get by NOT selling her at weaning. And, you said it doesn't make sense to pay $1500 for a replacement, Well, actually the cost would be $1500 minus what you could have sold the heifer for.
 

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