Redgully
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Good information there. The strangest way i lost a calf was when he came out with umbilical cord stuck between his front toes. Must off choked it or snapped it and drowned the calf.
Lost one this Morning
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Redgully
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40 years of cattle and lost one calf, went into purebreds and lost two out of the first six.....slowly heading back to cross breds. Put in my first ever embryos and lost the first one calving, that was a kick in the guts. Had to be on my own for a few hours after that one.
Like I have said before on Cattletoday, if any calves born dead anywhere in the U.S. have an underbite, that indicates that the calf was being exposed to pesticides, especially the insecticide Imidacloprid or Imidacloprid and the herbicide Roundup simultaneously. Imidacloprid was shown to cause deer fawns to have underdeveloped facial bones (underbite or overbite) and also cause mortality in the deliberately exposed fawns. Imidacloprid and Glyphosate were shown by studies to work synergistically to kill test animals, invertebrates and vertebrates up to a thousand times faster and at a higher mortality rate than either alone. A very recent study showed that a very high percent of humans whose urine was tested (around 70 to 80%) were exposed to Imidacloprid and another study that tested human urine for Glyphosate found around the around that same percent for that pesticide. So much of both of those pesticides are used, that they fall in the rain and snow on to the foliage and surface water everywhere, even far from fields where used. Imidacloprid was found in the spinal fluid of little children, which means it can go to the brain. The stuff kills birds and insect pollinators and those it doesn't kill, it causes brain damage so they get lost, resulting in high mortality. So if your dead calf has an underbite or an overbite, it is highly likely that the mortality was caused by fetal exposure to Imidacloprid and Glyphosate. Not many calves are born in western U.S. with an overbite, but around 30% of calves here are born with an underbite. The calf was exposed in the womb, but the pesticides did not cause it to die. However, the lower incisors forward of the dental pad any amount at all is an underbite and is detrimental to the affected calf being able to get adequate nutrition when grazing. If calves with an underbite are fed grain and hay, an underbite doesn't affect weight gain, like it does on those that have to bite off grass and forage. Checking the bite on dead calves will tell you a great deal about why they are dead and doesn't cost you anything but about two minutes of your time. If you are really curious about any other birth defects cut the calf open and check the heart to see if it has an enlarged right ventricle and check the lungs to see if they have inflammation and even white (dead) areas on them. Calves that die often do, which is why they are born dead or die soon after birth. I am very sorry for your loss. I really hate that so many baby animals of all kinds are being so needlessly killed and no one will do anything about it, not even to save the human newborns.
Travlr
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So are human infants being born with under/overbites due to exposure to these chemicals?
Redgully
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I call the bs. We had a large field which was planted to orchard where we sprayed roundup five or six times a year for 30 years. When we pulled orchard out seeded with pasture, first couple of years the strips where we sprayed ground on tree lines most grasses grew well but some types of grass didn't like it, two years later you can't see a difference. That cattle in that paddock have never had an issue or lost a calf and its been 12 years now. We also used imidacloprid in there. Can i ask, have you first hand experience with this or just something you've read like all the other scare mongers out there.
wbvs58
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Redgully
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A wise bull!
South Dakota State University researchers did a study with white-tailed deer. They gave pregnant female deer imidacloprid in two different doses. These were their findings.
Effects of Neonicotinoid Insecticides on Physiology and Reproductive Characteristics of Captive Female and Fawn White-tailed Deer, Berheim et. al. 2019. Results indicated that 1) control deer consumed more water than treatment groups, 2) imidacloprid was present in the organs of our control group, indicating environmental contamination, 3) as imidacloprid increased in the spleen, fawn survival, thyroxine levels, jawbone lengths, body weight, and organ weights decreased, 4) adult female imidacloprid levels in the genitals were negatively correlated with genital organ weight and,
5) behavioral observations indicated that imidacloprid levels in spleens were negatively correlated with activity levels in adult females and fawns. Results demonstrate that imidacloprid has direct effects on white-tailed deer when administered at field–relevant doses.
The South Dakota study was based on the results of two studies I helped with concerning the prevalence of the birth defects that began occurring on vertebrate species, especially grazing animals, rodents and birds in spring of 1995. The birth defects on white-tailed deer were first reported on yearlings in spring of 1996 by biologists who worked for Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks. It was eventually found that a fairly high prevalence of newborn mule deer, pronghorn antelope, moose, elk, bison, bighorn sheep, mountain goat and all examined domestic grazing animals, including equine species, camelid species, goats, sheep and cattle were being born with the same health issues, including weakness, low activity levels, failure to thrive and mortality as the white-tailed deer, including the same birth defects our first two studies reported. The birth defects, like underbite and overbite, reproductive malformations, enlarged right heart ventricle and underdeveloped thymus (the main immune system organ on a newborn mammal) were rare and for some had not previously been reported in the scientific literature. Imidacloprid began being used in states west of our area and in our area in spring and summer of 1994. I doubt, based on all the hundreds of studies showing the deadly effects of imidacloprid done since, that it was just a coincidence that all those birth defects began being observed on domestic newborns in early spring of 1995 and then on all the listed wild grazing animals in years after. Also, here in our area a whole raft of very rare and unusual birth defects were reported in newborn human babies beginning in spring of 1995 and those became more common each year after. Those included Trisomy 13, 18, and 21 (Trisomy 21 is commonly called Down's Syndrome), spina bifida, congenital abdominal herniation, missing portions of the brain, every heart defect known to medicine and a couple of new ones, autism, missing limbs or digits, underbite and micropenis on male babies. There were only around 340 to 350 babies born in our county each year in the late 1990s, so the prevalence of total birth defects then was quite high. Surrounding counties also reported high prevalence of heart defects and some Trisomy 13 babies. In 1996, with the release of Roundup Ready seeds and millions of new pounds of Glyphosate Based Herbicides used each year, the newborns had even higher prevalence of birth defects. What was called Weak Calf Syndrome killed hundreds of calves here in our county beginning in 1995 and it got worse each year for several years. Another pesticide that began being used in millions of pounds instead of thousands of pounds in spring of 1994 was fungicides, especially Chlorothalonil, on potato blight in the states upwind. None was used in our county, but I sent a sample of snow water to the Billings, Montana testing lab and had it tested for Chlorothalonil in March of 1999, 5 months after it was used in Idaho, Washington and Oregon on the potato fields and there was 0.43 ppb of Chlorothalonil and its two metabolites. Not very much, I hear you all say. That was 4 times what it took in a study done in Florida on freshwater animals to kill everything in the freshwater environment except algae. And it fell on all the grass, bushes, surface water, etc. on our land and our county and all of Montana and states further east. Now the worst part, imidacloprid and glyphosate and Chlorothalonil have all been found to work synergistically (any two or all three) to damage cells and kill animals up to 1000 times faster than any of those alone. So you can call that BS if you want to. You were lucky I guess. Just because you didn't have any problems that you observed, doesn't mean that your neighbors down wind didn't have problems because of the toxins you used. Why are so many calves still being born with an underbite all over North America because of an underdeveloped premaxillary bone? That had never happened on any cattle, horses, goats, sheep or other domestic or wild animal I had raised until it began happening in spring of 1995, the year after imidacloprid began being used and is still happening on newborns every year with overbite now becoming more common also. That is enough of what you like to call BS for now. It is so hilarious and ironic that BS is the abbreviation for Brachygnathia Superior, the most common birth defect caused on all affected species of mammals and birds, including on human newborns. So we both would definitely like to stop the BS, right - LOL.
Travlr
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If you have a link to that study and/or any information on what area of South Dakota the study was conducted, when, and who was involved, I'd like to have that information.
Yes. Between 1995 and 2001 there was a high rate of babies born with an underbite. It was in the newspapers and in magazine articles. I didn't have a computer then of course. More recently, about 4 or 5 years ago, I talked to a children's dentist and asked if underbite was still an issue for little children. He said there were still some born with underbite, but overbite was a bigger problem in children. I asked him if it was because the lower jaw, including the chin was underdeveloped. He said yes, how did you know. I said that I study underdeveloped facial bone prevalence on wild and domestic mammals and follow reports of it on birds and children. I think I said somewhere on Cattletoday that of humans tested for imidacloprid, around 80% tested positive and around the same percent for humans tested for glyphosate. In human newborns, imidacloprid was found in the spinal fluid. You do know that goes to the brain, right? Quite a few birds, amphibians, and mammals were born with missing legs or digits, missing or malformed wings, missing or malformed eyes, ears, etc. that I documented with photos. Often the right side was the side affected and the left side normal, unless both sides were affected. When both sides were affected, the right side was often the worst (see ears in photo of over 10 year old horse born in Texas (attached). The horse in the photo also appears to have at least a slight overbite, but it is difficult to tell for sure at the angle the photo was taken. The ears are the issue. If you ever watch TV, you might have seen the Shriner's Hospital ads to raise money. They show a lot of children with missing arms, hands, digits, legs, feet, etc. or spina bifida and other serious birth defects. St. Jude's hospital ads show lots of children with cancer at a young age. Right after the birth defects began occurring on the wild and domestic animal, ungulates especially, hearts and cancer went up in the very young children, even newborns. So the answer to your question is a resounding yes. Unfortunately, no one would do anything about the wild newborns having birth defects. And no one in Montana or at the EPA in the late 1990's or since seemed to care at all about the increase in the similar birth defects on human newborns. Also, sorry to tell you this on Cattletoday, but our Montana Ag Dept. told me that birth defects on livestock were the owner's problem. I asked them if that was true if the owner had nothing to do with what was causing the birth defects, and they just repeated it was the livestock owner's problem. Thank you for asking, by the way. At least, you care about the children.
Attachments
That is a good way to learn.
Hi Travir, here is the reference. I also attached the entire study, if that works. I haven't tried that before. The link is at the end of the reference. (Berheim, E.H., Jenks, J.A., Lundgren, J.G., Michel, E.S., Grove, D., Jensen, W.F., 2019. Effects of neonicotinoid insecticides on physiology and reproductive characteristics of captive female and fawn white-tailed deer. Sci. Rep.9:4534. https:// doi: 10.1038/s41598-019-40994-9.) Interestingly, even the spleens of the deer that weren't deliberately given the imidacloprid tested positive for it when they killed and tested them all at the end of the study. Those deer could only have gotten the imidacloprid in the rain falling on the feed in the pens, or by breathing it in the air. That led to testing the spleens of deer killed by hunters in North Dakota and in Minnesota. Even deer that lived far from fields sprayed with imidacloprid or other pesticides tested positive for imidacloprid. Thank you very much for your concern for life, especially newborns.
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Travlr
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Thanks
I spent many hours each year measuring, necropsying and photographing wild and domestic animals and reading or working on studies between 1996 and 2021. I was never paid a cent for doing that either. I was just trying my best to save the newborns, including human newborns from health issues, including birth defects and mortality. Do you consider that first hand experience? I read hundreds of other people's studies, where they directly dosed animals with a specific pesticide and reported what happened. I had to do that to help get the four studies I helped with published. I was the lead author on three of those. Do you consider that first hand experience?
Travlr
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So were the deer being studied in South Dakota? And where in South Dakota?
You are very welcome.
At Brookings, SD at the State U. They had three pens of deer. Then they studied hunter-killed deer spleens from a large area of North Dakota. And then did the same with spleens collected in a large area of Minnesota. The Minnesota deer were not part of the original study that I attached to the above post with the reference. You can go to my website (www.judyhoy.com) and the first thing up right above the fox pup photo is the article about the SD study that was published in Scientific American. That is likely easier to understand than the study itself, unless you are used to reading scientific studies. If you then scroll down to near the bottom of the page on my website, to PDFs to Download and click on that, there are a lot of photo documents that show photos of the birth defects and also show what normal looks like for comparison. The studies I helped with and the SD study that I attached above are there also. Have you seen any calves with underbite, overbite, contracted tendons, no hair at birth, missing limbs or digits, or ears, etc. or other birth defects? Have you seen such birth defects on other grazing animals or dogs, cats, birds or other newborns, especially children?
Travlr
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Yeah, I know of a kid with a pretty severe overbite.
Redgully
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Well then i must be super lucky here my cattle have all their limbs and ears. You say there is a study and mix in your own observations and generalisation. Im not a scientist but quickly looking through the study one thing jumped out at me, they used their drinking water to administer the Imidacloprid and found the higher the dose the less they drank. Obviously they could taste it and didn't like it. So to me they would not have been hydrated properly which would have caused more problems than anything else in my opinion plus being unable to flush out toxins.
I'm not saying it is out the question chemicals are causing problems but we've got lunatics running around here preaching the end of the world and telling me this and that is going to happen yet on our place it hasn't. I had a guy come here telling me Imidacloprid was this evil stuff and wiping the bees out of the world. I showed him two hives on the boundary that had been there for 20 years that get drift when we spray plus worked on the flowers in our orchard, and he had no answer. We always sprayed late in day to avoid spraying bees directly. He was also going on about Glyphosate so i got a shovel and dug under a tree and the soild was full of worms. Again he had no answer because it was the exact opposite to what he was telling me. I will say muriate of potash kills soil life, that i have seen directly.
Having said all that these days i don't use glysophate or Imidacloprid at all anymore, they dont suit my situation. Local buyers wont buy produce that Imidacloprid has been used on and basta as a weedkiller works better for me.
I'm not saying it is out the question chemicals are causing problems but we've got lunatics running around here preaching the end of the world and telling me this and that is going to happen yet on our place it hasn't. I had a guy come here telling me Imidacloprid was this evil stuff and wiping the bees out of the world. I showed him two hives on the boundary that had been there for 20 years that get drift when we spray plus worked on the flowers in our orchard, and he had no answer. We always sprayed late in day to avoid spraying bees directly. He was also going on about Glyphosate so i got a shovel and dug under a tree and the soild was full of worms. Again he had no answer because it was the exact opposite to what he was telling me. I will say muriate of potash kills soil life, that i have seen directly.
Having said all that these days i don't use glysophate or Imidacloprid at all anymore, they dont suit my situation. Local buyers wont buy produce that Imidacloprid has been used on and basta as a weedkiller works better for me.
Billions of bees have died and in hundreds of studies the bee researchers say it is partly because of exposure to pesticides like imidacloprid. I didn't say there was one study on the mammals - there are lots of them. The deer study showed that the deer that died had the highest levels of imidacloprid in their spleens. The fawns that had birth defects, like underbite, overbite, reproductive malformations or internal defects had much higher levels of imidacloprid in their spleen than fawns that did not have birth defects. Some animals can tolerate toxins or their cells can get rid of toxins better than others, so some animals are much more sensitive than others. There are still worms in the soil, just not as many as there used to be. I did not mix in my own observations and generalizations - I collected measurements, did necropsies, took photos and we published our own studies - that is called doing science not "mixing in your own observations and generalizations" just in case you don't actually know the difference.
