Making a calf suck!

Nesikep · Apr 3, 2014

Wondering what tips or tricks there are to get a sluggish calf to suck.. Roma had her calf yesterday evening, and I've been fighting it to give it colostrum. Holds its mouth pretty tightly shut, and doesn't suck on my fingers. She can stand OK though. I have her a quart last night, and I had a half quart I just gave her now.. it was 4 AM when I gave it to her, I'll give her more when I officially get up.

The calf is about 65 lbs, heifer, wasn't a long birth... I gave her a bit of a pull once the nose was showing and she was out in a couple minutes.

The mother has been with the heiferettes because she's 'too nice', and doesn't fight for her place at all (the heiferettes beat her up), and she was a bit thin in january... she's been getting better hay since and put on a bit of weight, though she could use a bit more yet... I'd says she's probably around BCS 4-5. She's had good trace mineral all winter that's high in Se and Cu. The last heifer calf we had this size was 4 years ago and it was a twin... usually lighter calves are a little more enegetic than the big ones.. this one not so much..

How do you get them to want to suck?

M5farm · Apr 3, 2014

karo syrup on your finger will somestimes get them to try

greybeard · Apr 3, 2014

Sometimes, with heifer's first calf, it's a fault of both momma and calf---neither one seems to know what to do at first.
Does the momma even try to nose the calf around to her udder?
Only one I ever had that had trouble, I put both in a little stall arrangement, & I managed to squeeze/squirt some milk right out of a teat onto the calf's nose and mouth and once she licked it off, she found the teat pretty fast afterwards on her own.

Limomike · Apr 3, 2014

We do the same thing greybeard does... put the mama in the shoot, get the calf over my knee, and milk a teat to where the milk squirts out onto the calf's nose or mouth. Rub it around on it. and stick the calf up to that teat.. it should go for it in no time. You might have to do this for abuot 3 or 4 days until she gets the hang of it, but it usually works for me.

Bez__ · Apr 3, 2014

There is no magic formula

You have what we call a "dumb sucker" and they are far more common than most would like to admit.

We pull the mom and baby off to a covered pen.

Tube the animal and wait.

They will come around but the more you force them the longer it takes.

Lots of home remedies and I admit to having tried all the ideas that people here come up with - none really work.

But, if you keep forcing those ideas you take up time - which is the only true solution. If you do even one of the potential solutions long enough you will think that you have found the answer. In fact you have not.

You just burned up time.

Time is your answer.

Tube and keep tubing it as required and it will come around - when it is ready to suck on a bottle it will tell you - put it on Mom at that point.

If you are lucky when you come out to feed it, it will already be sucking on Mom's tits.

Bez

Nesikep · Apr 3, 2014

Thanks for the ideas... Mom's tits don't have much in them.. I think a steer may have been sucking on her before she calved and taken most of the colostrum.. Her behind was showing she was going to calf, but not her udder.

I'm giving the calf colostrum with a bottle and nipple... a pretty slow and tedious process, it seems to be a bit better the second time... made her get up and walk around a bit too.. Mom is really cooperative with whatever you try and do

What is karo syrup? usually a little colostrum on my finger did the job for me in the past.. and old fellow always had some rye whiskey with him, and would give a slow calf a shot, and take one himself.

I know time is going to be the ultimate cure for this...

cowgirl8 · Apr 3, 2014

Bez__":1kl51073 said:
There is no magic formula

You have what we call a "dumb sucker" and they are far more common than most would like to admit.

We pull the mom and baby off to a covered pen.

Tube the animal and wait.

They will come around but the more you force them the longer it takes.

Lots of home remedies and I admit to having tried all the ideas that people here come up with - none really work.

But, if you keep forcing those ideas you take up time - which is the only true solution. If you do even one of the potential solutions long enough you will think that you have found the answer. In fact you have not.

You just burned up time.

Time is your answer.

Tube and keep tubing it as required and it will come around - when it is ready to suck on a bottle it will tell you - put it on Mom at that point.

If you are lucky when you come out to feed it, it will already be sucking on Mom's tits.

Bez

I was going to comment, but Bez gave the best answer and exactly what i'd do.. I hate burning up time too.. :P

Bez__ · Apr 3, 2014

Nesikep":nb62h7pn said:
Thanks for the ideas... Mom's tits don't have much in them.. I think a steer may have been sucking on her before she calved and taken most of the colostrum.. Her behind was showing she was going to calf, but not her udder.

I'm giving the calf colostrum with a bottle and nipple... a pretty slow and tedious process, it seems to be a bit better the second time... made her get up and walk around a bit too.. Mom is really cooperative with whatever you try and do

What is karo syrup? usually a little colostrum on my finger did the job for me in the past.. and old fellow always had some rye whiskey with him, and would give a slow calf a shot, and take one himself.

I know time is going to be the ultimate cure for this...

Think corn syrup - same idea

Udder - well some look emptier than they are

Go for it - but I bet you a buck time will be your answer

Bez

Nesikep · Apr 3, 2014

She was sucking when I got up! now she really won't like the bottle

inyati13 · Apr 3, 2014

Nes, I think you know this and Bez mentioned it as a line item in his first response. If there is any doubt that they are not getting nutrition in the first hours or nutrition is not going in by nursing for what ever cause, then use a tube. My vet put me onto that the first year I started. He even showed me how to make sure you are into the esophagus by holding your hand at the point of the brisket. You can feel the tube knob pass by as it enters the stomach. If you go into the trachea, the tube will go straight back to the branch of the bronchial tubes and you will never feel the knob. Once you are sure it is in the esophagus (actually, I have never had a case where it was not), then you can start to tube liquid. Use some of the heifer's colostrum if you can get it from her. I know people frown on this but if I cannot milk it out, I will use a cannula and drain some out. I am extremely antiseptic in my practices. I store my cannula in isopropyl alcohol and I have a spray bottle of alcohol to clean the teat orifice. I have pretty much followed my vet's example. I guess everybody has a different method but I don't mess around too long if my calf is not getting fluid.

Lucky_P · Apr 3, 2014

What Bez said.

Had two in this spring's group that were 'slow starters', and one that I noticed a week out that was looking gaunt and the old cow's teats were still way bigger than they should have been if he'd been nursing.
We always put the cow in the chute and try to let the calf nurse, but if they don't jump right on it, I'll milk the cow and try 'em with a bottle; some still won't nurse, so I tube 'em.

The two 'slow' calves this spring had to be tubed 2 to 4 times (2x daily) before they figured out the nursing deal.
The week old calf... wouldn't nurse the cow in the chute; I think it took him 4 days before he'd nurse the bottle, and immediately after that, he went to nursing the dam without having to run her up in the chute again.
You've just gotta keep 'em going, with colostrum & nutrition, until 'the lightbulb comes on'.

Nesikep · Apr 3, 2014

I usually will tube them if they're really too weak to swallow... if I can have them nurse from a bottle I'd rather. I got a quart into her right away, and another half a few hours later... I'm sure she can drink more than her mother is producing right now, so I'm going to try and give her some more.

For milking so far I've never needed a canula, but have a couple if I need them... Kinda like the trocar... it's stuff you gotta have around

Lucky_P... that calf must have nursed somewhere at some point to survive a week! We had one case where the cow had colostrum, but never made milk after that, and starved the calf... we tried for a week to milk her in the chute with ocytocin and no luck, so she grew wheels, the calf got pneumonia and a couple shots and ened up OK and adopted by another cow

Nesikep · Apr 4, 2014

I wish I knew how much milk the cow was making... I milked Mega for a half quart just before and fed it to "Tina"... she wanted nothing to do with it but I got it down... She's pretty strong, but not very active.. her ears aren't droopy and she holds her head up, likes pettings and doesn't like the bottle. I gave her a half quart mid-morning as well, and she did kinda suck on the nipple.

Another calf, about 6 days old has some scours, so I gave him a scour oblet, and will do so again tomorrow and until it clears up.. he's a little under the weather but goes and nurses, so he's not in bad shape.

Mega and Roma shared a bucket of grain... Mega seems to be the only one who's civil to Roma, so I have them together, which is convenient for me milking too, and if the little girl gets really hungry and Roma doesn't have enough, I think I might be able to convince Mega to tolerate her stealing some... Lazyboy is getting more and more hungry, and starting to finish off all the milk Mega can produce...

Has anyone had experience with heifers getting nursed before they calf, if they still come into full milk after?

inyati13 · Apr 4, 2014

Nesikep":5hj2d0bj said:
I wish I knew how much milk the cow was making... I milked Mega for a half quart just before and fed it to "Tina"... she wanted nothing to do with it but I got it down... She's pretty strong, but not very active.. her ears aren't droopy and she holds her head up, likes pettings and doesn't like the bottle. I gave her a half quart mid-morning as well, and she did kinda suck on the nipple.

Another calf, about 6 days old has some scours, so I gave him a scour oblet, and will do so again tomorrow and until it clears up.. he's a little under the weather but goes and nurses, so he's not in bad shape.

Mega and Roma shared a bucket of grain... Mega seems to be the only one who's civil to Roma, so I have them together, which is convenient for me milking too, and if the little girl gets really hungry and Roma doesn't have enough, I think I might be able to convince Mega to tolerate her stealing some... Lazyboy is getting more and more hungry, and starting to finish off all the milk Mega can produce...

Has anyone had experience with heifers getting nursed before they calf, if they still come into full milk after?

Nes, I have seen some of my weaned calves that have been off a cow for a few months trying to nurse heifers that are bagging up. I don't think in the cases I observed that they were able to do it long enough to bring down milk.

Nesikep · Apr 4, 2014

Roma would be one that would let them though. The calf doesn't look like it's hollow anyhow, but I'm going to supplement it for a while anyhow, I'm certain she could drink more, just hates rubber teats

Lucky_P · Apr 4, 2014

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he got something - just not much. As cold & nasty as our weather was at that time, he pretty well burned through most of his fat reserves, as he was pretty gaunt and 'tucked up', but is doing fine now. One back teat was nursed down, but when we had her in the chute milking her (daily, for 4 or 5 days) we could hardly get anything out of that one - but close to a gallon out of the other three big ol' tits. This is this old gal's last go-round. If I have to help a calf nurse because the teats are so big, it's time for them to leave.

Nesikep · Apr 4, 2014

Looks like Tina's light bulb has come on.. she's sucking Roma's teats dry for sure, and Mega is being a champ.. I put a bucket of grain in front of her and I was able to get Tina to nurse from her directly, and Mega didn't make a fuss.. Later in the day I was giving Mega a back rub, and Tina was able to get some more, and then went to Mega's front end, and she even got a couple licks... Perhaps I can convince Mega this is also hers, and keep Tina on both cows.

*d@mn* I like having workable cattle

Any continuations I'll post up on my "calving season 2014" thread. thanks for the help folks :)

novatech · Apr 4, 2014

I have taken a hand full of sugar and shoved it their mouth. I then force the bottle in. The calf tries to get the sugar off its tung and finds out it can get milk. Sometimes it work sometimes not. Once it learns to suck on the bottle it is not as bad putting it on the cow.

Nesikep · Apr 5, 2014

I'll certainly keep that in mind... it sounds like it could work

regolith · Apr 5, 2014

Nesikep":2p2chm6e said:
I wish I knew how much milk the cow was making... I milked Mega for a half quart just before and fed it to "Tina"... she wanted nothing to do with it but I got it down... She's pretty strong, but not very active.. her ears aren't droopy and she holds her head up, likes pettings and doesn't like the bottle. I gave her a half quart mid-morning as well, and she did kinda suck on the nipple.

Another calf, about 6 days old has some scours, so I gave him a scour oblet, and will do so again tomorrow and until it clears up.. he's a little under the weather but goes and nurses, so he's not in bad shape.

Mega and Roma shared a bucket of grain... Mega seems to be the only one who's civil to Roma, so I have them together, which is convenient for me milking too, and if the little girl gets really hungry and Roma doesn't have enough, I think I might be able to convince Mega to tolerate her stealing some... Lazyboy is getting more and more hungry, and starting to finish off all the milk Mega can produce...

Has anyone had experience with heifers getting nursed before they calf, if they still come into full milk after?

Pre-milking shouldn't make a difference to milk production after calving but it *does* remove the colostrum & the replacement colostrum produced is likely to be of lower quality.
Plenty of times I wish I knew how much milk was inside a calf... it's not that unusual for a heifer to come in with nothing for the first two or three milkings but if the calf is bouncy and/or refusing a bottle, I have to presume they're getting enough.

Making a calf suck!

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