sick calf

[trip]

i have a 7 day old calf who has had the scours for about three days. i have given him sulfer pills & electrolights. i have been giving him 2 bottles a day but he still acts like he is thirsty and he is still scouring. what can i do?

 

[D_skro]

Good calves are always thirsty, you dont want to feed them to much.

 

[trip]

i am just scared that he will get dehydrated(sp?).

 

[3MR]

Are you saying you are giving him two bottles of Electolytes or two bottles of milk replacer plus the electrolytes.

 

[Alice]

Alternate feedings...morning feeding--bottle of electrolytes, 2 hours later a bottle of milk replacer. Middle of the afternoon--bottle of electrolytes, 2 hours later bottle of milk replacer. What's even better, if you can, break the feedings down to every few hours like a half bottle of replacer...wait a couple of hours, then the electrolytes...wait of couple of hours, then another half bottle of replacer, and so on. The trick is to keep him hydrated with the electrolytes and nourished with the milk replacer. If the calf continues to eat, you've got half the battle won.

Try some spectam (red pig scours medicine)...20ccs first dose, 20ccs there after. Do this twice a day. Also, squirt probios, or some type of microbial, into the calf's mouth at each feeding. Don't discontinue the milk for more than 2 feedings in a row...when a calf gets weak from lack of nutrition, it's harder for it to recover. And, electrolytes do not contain nutrition.

Watch the calf close for respiratory/pneumonia type problems.

Also, put some dry calf starter/calf manna feed out and keep the water clean and fresh, and try to keep the calf's pen as clean as you can.

And remember...it's not the scours that kill the calf. It's the dehydration from the scours that does.

Alice

 

[trip]

i am just feeding electrolytes 2x a day du to that is what the vet said. they said to stop the milk replacer and just use the electrolytes. he does not look to be week but stronger than when i first got him and he is still eating good. the electrolytes have a thicking agent in them so it will slow down the loss of fluids. his scours are starting to thicken up a little.

 

[Alice]

I'm glad to hear that the scours are getting thicker...that's from the stuff in the electrolytes. Some electrolytes have that in it. The thing is, you cannot let the calf go without nutrition of some sort...even if it amounts to only a bottle of milk replacer broken down over the course of the day.

Also, there are electrolytes that can be mixed in milk, but not all of them can...you have to read the instructions of the electrolytes you are using.

Withholding milk replacer USED to be the course of action...it is no longer. I've watched calves die from starvation because my brother is still from the old school of withholding milk replacer until they "dry up." I will never, ever do that again. If the calf's gonna die, it's gonna die...but danged if I'm gonna let it die from withholding nutrition of some sort. And tell your vet I said he could put that in his pipe and smoke it!

Alice

 

[certherfbeef]

My Grandpa always told me that you want to leave a bottle calf always wanting a little more.

 

[trip]

well i have also been told to give him pedealite(sp?) for nutrition :?:

 

[trip]

also if i was to give him milk replacer would it cause the calf to scour worse? :help:

 

[Alice]

also if i was to give him milk replacer would it cause the calf to scour worse? :help:

Milk replacer does not cause scours...overfeeding milk replacer, or a calf nursing and consuming too much milk at once can cause nutritional scours. So can a lot of other things...lousy weather, unsanitary bottles and nipples, poor calf housing. Most scours are caused by bacterial agents.

Below is a link that addresses the need to continue giving milk replacer to a scouring calf. It also warns about mixing milk replacer with electrolytes and diluting down milk replacer with too much water. You don't have to read the entire thing, altho it would be a good idea to, but just skip down to treatment of scours and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I will tell you this from my experiences with scours...feeding smaller amounts of milk replacer at a time stretched over the course of a day works a lot better. Yeah, it's time consuming, but it makes a world of difference.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/em/em8513-e.pdf

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Alice is RIGHT. Your vet is OUT DATED!! Must have milk for nutrition. Electrolites are great - but not enough alone.

 

[AngusLimoX]

trip , why the heck would you ever listen to your vet??!!!!

Alice is right!

Forget all that doctor of veterinary medicine stuff and the fact you will be dealing with the vet face to face all the time - the internet wanna be witch doctors have all the right answers!!

They even know the names of powerful drugs!
:lol: :lol:

 

[vbd]

You know Angus, been reading these boards for over a year now and there are folks here that actually raise babies and know what they are talking about, NOT to be confused with educated vets!

If I need assistance with a baby, I would go with Alice, Jeanne, Randiliana, Milkmaid, Mscamp, Merry, and a few others with real experience...

Give these gals 10 calves and leave 10 at the vet...better give the vet a few extras to make it fair... ;-) My money is on the girl "witch-doctors".

Van

 

[AngusLimoX]

If I need assistance with a baby, I would go with Alice, Jeanne, Randiliana, Milkmaid, Mscamp, Merry, and a few others with real experience...

We were raised differently, until my trust is breached people in clergy, law enforcement, doctors, teachers - they all get my respect as a matter of course. Vets are doctors, who deserve respect even if you disagree with them.

The vet in this instance has had her diagnosis trashed and her client was told to disregard a course of treatment. Then, the arrogant poster ( read "imposter" ) had the gall to tell the vet to put that in their pipe and stuff it.

A line was crossed in this thread, and you likely don't realize it because you are not involved with cattle. Real cattle. The cattle industry has always had a relationship of mutual respect and trust with the veterinary community. We NEED their support. And they have done so much for us as an industry that to trash them in the manner done in this thread is unacceptable.

Some of the named group above have already pm'd me to agree with my earlier post. I doubt folks like you using their names to back up Alice when she messes up.( I also have huge respect for these ladies, some I consider online friends, but they would never consider questioning a treatment plan in such a disrespectful manner ).

I wondered when you would pop up again Van, realizing that when Alice gets caught pretending online and is called on it you pay a real price at home! There are programs ( Net Nanny and others ) that you can buy to limit her time online and the sites she visits if the internet starts to interfere with your love life!

 

[Alice]

I believe I said he could put that in his pipe and smoke it, not stuff it.

If this weren't so comical, I might get offended. :lol2:

Mr. AngusLimoX, just out of curiosity, what have you been putting in your pipe and smoking lately? 8)

Alice

 

[Bructer]

Can't we all just get aBong?

Cheers,

 

[Alice]

Can't we all just get a Bong?

Cheers,

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[vbd]

Dearest Angus,

Numer one...I never used anyone's name to back up anything nor did I infer that they had somehow weighed in on the conversation. What I did say (or was at least trying too) was there are a number of people on here that I respect that have experience and knowledge specifically to regarding raising babies...HOWEVER, if I have in any way offended any of these fine individuals, they have my sincerest apologies.

Number two...I give respect to any individual who has given me reason too. A sheepskin does not qualify by default. My experience with my "make-believe" cattle/vets have yet to leave much of an impression, but then again, perhaps I have not been as fortunate as you... ;-)

Number three...As far as Alice goes, she doesn't need me to defend any statement she might make. I do however, have first hand experience watching her save calves that I had long since given up on. Case in point, carried feed to one of the heifers she saved with a lot of hard work, worry and caring, just this morning.

In fact, if you felt I was defending her, you missed my point entirely... :roll:

I will write real slow so perhaps you can understand...The vets are not always right !!!

Van

 

[AngusLimoX]

I will write real slow so perhaps you can understand...The vets are not always right !!!

Van

You write as fast as you can think there vbd, or as fast as Alice can dictate.

The vet is not always right, but they are always a vet, and deserve better than how you and your wife talk about them.

None of the folks you chose to list in your post would compare themselves to a vet, except one, who seems to think her advice should carry more weight than a vets. Vets are in another universe of animal health knowledge compared to those inhabiting planet Alice.

If folks wanna make some kind of hobby giving advice on caring for bottles to people who should really know better anyway - I have no problem with it if that is how they choose to spend their time. But don't hold yourselves up to be anything more than hobbyists on the fringe of the industry. Not vets, and not cattle people.