Looking for suggestions on calves

[GoWyo]

Can see the benefits of line breeding or inbreeding but a bit uncomfortable with it in my situation just because I have no idea what genetics are coming from the bull or the cows from the sale barn. Already had one odd deal come up where I had a calf that was 6 months old and weighed 150lbs. Was even giving it grain which the other calves weren't getting and the dang thing wouldn't grow. Should have sold it as a mini on Craigslist cause it didn't bring anything at the sale barn.

Sometimes you just get a dink for no explainable reason, environmental, disease, cow's fault, or whatever. If you kept the cow and get a second dink, then probably the cow's fault.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Sometimes you just get a dink for no explainable reason, environmental, disease, cow's fault, or whatever. If you kept the cow and get a second dink, then probably the cow's fault.

If I actually raised livestock myself, a cow wouldn't get a 2nd chance to burn my pocketbook. I'm a believer of one and done. You gotta remember I'm a grazing specialist with an animal science degree, not a livestock producer. I work with LOTS of producers, but I am not one myself.

 

[Brute 23]

Can see the benefits of line breeding or inbreeding but a bit uncomfortable with it in my situation just because I have no idea what genetics are coming from the bull or the cows from the sale barn. Already had one odd deal come up where I had a calf that was 6 months old and weighed 150lbs. Was even giving it grain which the other calves weren't getting and the dang thing wouldn't grow. Should have sold it as a mini on Craigslist cause it didn't bring anything at the sale barn.

Let's walk through some thing here.

Was that calf because of an isolated sale barn cow or because of the bull?

If it was the bull, then you should not be retaining heifers from him.

If it was an isolated cow, she should be gone and breeding back will have no effect.

Those two things greatly contradict themselves. If you don't trust your genetics to breed back once and make a terminal calf, it's probably not a good idea to retain any thing from them.

Just some thing to think about.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Let's walk through some thing here.

Was that calf because of an isolated sale barn cow or because of the bull?

If it was the bull, then you should not be retaining heifers from him.

If it was an isolated cow, she should be gone and breeding back will have no effect.

Those two things greatly contradict themselves. If you don't trust your genetics to breed back once and make a terminal calf, it's probably not a good idea to retain any thing from them.

Just some thing to think about.

I don't believe @blackladies has indicated they do retain any of them, but he hasn't indicated he doesn't either. And, it could be BOTH the bull AND the cow with a problem.

I stand corrected, has kept some heifers.

 

[Travlr]

I'll second what @Brute 23 just said...

 

[Travlr]

Kept the heifers out of the black bull is the reason I am getting rid of him.

@Mark Reynolds , he said this, above...

 

[blackladies]

Let's walk through some thing here.

Was that calf because of an isolated sale barn cow or because of the bull?

If it was the bull, then you should not be retaining heifers from him.

If it was an isolated cow, she should be gone and breeding back will have no effect.

Those two things greatly contradict themselves. If you don't trust your genetics to breed back once and make a terminal calf, it's probably not a good idea to retain any thing from them.

Just some thing to think about.

Was probably the cow she went to the sale barn. She got two chances, one was the dink the other was a calf born with an extra leg that didn't make it.

 

[Travlr]

Was probably the cow she went to the sale barn. She got two chances, one was the dink the other was a calf born with an extra leg that didn't make it.

Inbred...

Any chance she was related to your bull?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

@Mark Reynolds , he said this, above...

Yep, missed it the first time. Saw it just before I read this.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Was probably the cow she went to the sale barn. She got two chances, one was the dink the other was a calf born with an extra leg that didn't make it.

Screw up once, shame on the cow. Screw up twice, shame on you. Just say'n.

 

[Brute 23]

Was probably the cow she went to the sale barn. She got two chances, one was the dink the other was a calf born with an extra leg that didn't make it.

Dang sale barn cows

J/k.... sorry had to do it after some of our other threads.

 

[blackladies]

Inbred...

Any chance she was related to your bull?

Would say almost no chance, bull bought from neighbor who raises his own and cow came from the sale barn. The tag in her ear didn't match the tags the neighbor uses and she looked nothing like any of his typical animals.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

The chances of a cow having a 2nd problematic pregnancy or problematic calf are a couple orders of magnitude higher than a cow that has never had a problem to begin with having a problem, or a heifer having a problem for that matter.

 

[blackladies]

Would say almost no chance, bull bought from neighbor who raises his own and cow came from the sale barn. The tag in her ear didn't match the tags the neighbor uses and she looked nothing like any of his typical animals.would say she was at the sale barn for a reason.

 

[Brute 23]

Just out of curiosity @blackladies, you did pretty dang good with the sale barn cows and neighbors bull, why change up the game plan now?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Would say almost no chance, bull bought from neighbor who raises his own and cow came from the sale barn. The tag in her ear didn't match the tags the neighbor uses and she looked nothing like any of his typical animals.

Yep, not likely inbred, but inferior genetics. 'Inbred' is the magnification of inferior genetics, in a sense.

 

[GoWyo]

Was probably the cow she went to the sale barn. She got two chances, one was the dink the other was a calf born with an extra leg that didn't make it.

Sounds like she may have been a DD carrier (duplicative development). Means the bull is a carrier too if the calf was affected. Was the extra leg off the spine?

 

[Travlr]

The chances of a cow having a 2nd problematic pregnancy or problematic calf are a couple orders of magnitude higher than a cow that has never had a problem to begin with having a problem, or a heifer having a problem for that matter.

One of those animals I was talking about... A double chromosome carrier.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Sounds like she may have been a DD carrier (duplicative development). Means the bull is a carrier too if the calf was affected. Was the extra leg off the spine?

If this is the case, I would sell the bull, the cow, AND ALL the progeny from either the cow or the bull that you have. You will be better off in the long run.

Doesn't matter how good the progeny are. I learned the hard way about this, kinda. I had a simulated herd in a computer program while I was working on my BS degree. I figured out after the third generation that one of my bulls had a 'genetic mistake' that was problematic so I got rid of him but kept his progeny because they had great phenotypic characteristics. On generation 5 or 6 I lost 5 calves out of 47 due to this genetic defect I thought wouldn't be a problem. 10% of the calf crop was a problem. It wasn't real life so my pocket book was fine, and so was my grade (not docked for the 'mistake' as my reasoning was sound) but I learned real quick genetics is kinda like playing with fire. If you don't respect it. it WILL burn you!

 

[blackladies]

Just out of curiosity @blackladies, you did pretty dang good with the sale barn cows and neighbors bull, why change up the game plan now?

Long story but I had a post awhile back when I brought calves to the sale barn and they didn't bring anywhere near what they should have brought. I realize they won't be the top but it was way less and I had taken the time to wean and vaccinate and the auctioneer didn't announce it even when the guy at drop off wrote all the info down. Went back later and talked to one of the guys involved with the sale barn and he said they should have announced it and if they don't stand up and say something or let him know before hand that I have some coming through and he will make sure. Was just trying to get some others thoughts on what direction to head. Didn't have the experience on that first group I bought from the sale barn. Bought several with foot problems. Thought by retaining my own heifers I would at least know what I'm starting with and how old they are.