Flushing

[WinterSpringsFarm]

I LOVE my Milestones. They make GREAT dams.
I was always told that the embryo's are graded on "maturity" and that the male embryos tend to be further developed than the females. No science, just what I've heard.

Jeanne, that's what I'm hoping for. I want to make cows with this mating and I figure Milestone x Steel Force should do it.

As for the semen.... Greg Stewart of SSC took good care of me. Of the people I talked to he was the only guy that had any.

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

I had a chance today to look at our ET list from last year to check on # of heifers on #2 eggs vs #1 and found I don't have much to compare with. We put in a total of 34 eggs last year which resulted in 25 calves, of those we had

A total of 6 #2 eggs
Two were purchased grade 2 sexed HC got one HC out of these two eggs.
4 bull calves
So five out of 6 eggs stuck.

A total of 28 #1 eggs resulted in

11 Bull calves
9 Heifer calves

This doesn't give us a lot of #2's to compare with but it sure doesn't make me think that #2 eggs give more heifers, since the only heifer I did get was out of a HC sexed embryo. We will be putting in around the same number of eggs this year so I will sure be looking at the numbers again. But I need to head to the farm for the pm breeding now so don't have time to research any farther right now. It is an idea that has me wanting to explore the possibilities.

gizmom

That's great info. Thanks for sharing.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

Clint

Not if the twos are put in fresh, but you lose some % points on two's when they have been frozen. When we flush if we have recips available we put all the two's in and freeze the ones. Others may have different opinions on this but it is what we have found works best for us.

Gizmom

Thank you for the info!

 

[NEFarmwife]

I had a chance today to look at our ET list from last year to check on # of heifers on #2 eggs vs #1 and found I don't have much to compare with. We put in a total of 34 eggs last year which resulted in 25 calves, of those we had

A total of 6 #2 eggs
Two were purchased grade 2 sexed HC got one HC out of these two eggs.
4 bull calves
So five out of 6 eggs stuck.

A total of 28 #1 eggs resulted in

11 Bull calves
9 Heifer calves

This doesn't give us a lot of #2's to compare with but it sure doesn't make me think that #2 eggs give more heifers, since the only heifer I did get was out of a HC sexed embryo. We will be putting in around the same number of eggs this year so I will sure be looking at the numbers again. But I need to head to the farm for the pm breeding now so don't have time to research any farther right now. It is an idea that has me wanting to explore the possibilities.

gizmom

I was revisiting this post and had a question for you. Ours were bad this year. We had 2 of 5 embryos stick and only 1 survived (internal bleeding, got stepped on)... I notice you have really good conception results. Do you mind sharing how you set yours up for recips? Wondering if we need to do something a bit different on when we actually do transfer.

 

[NonTypicalCPA]

I'm interested as well in the setup for fresh versus frozen. I've got 4 cows I'm thinking about putting Wagyu embryos in this fall. Do the cows need to be in heat to implant?

 

[NEFarmwife]

I'm interested as well in the setup for fresh versus frozen. I've got 4 cows I'm thinking about putting Wagyu embryos in this fall. Do the cows need to be in heat to implant?

You implant the eggs after heat, typically a week after because you need the embryo to match the same cycle as the donor when she was flushed and those eggs became embryos.

We have a good embryologist and good conditioned cows. Scratching my head on conception with embryos we purchased because our own embryos had a much better conception rate.

If I ever purchase embryos again, I'll have a 50% guarantee. I know death after birth isn't their problem. Just frustrated.

I'd however, love to have gizmoms conception rates.

 

[gizmom]

I had not looked at this thread in awhile, sorry for not responding sooner. This breeding season we implanted 33 embryos. We didn't have any donors ready to flush so no fresh eggs just frozen. We manually palpated and called 21 safe with an ET calf or 63% conception a big drop from last years conception. In all honesty last year was unbelievable and we had no expectations of repeating that % again. The recips were managed the same as in past years. We manage the recips to be in good body condition and they are on a chelated mineral program. The one major difference between this year and last was we had a cow ready to flush last year so nine of the embryos used last year were fresh. This year we used 22 grade 1 eggs and 11 grade 2. We had 16 number 1's stick and 5 number 2's stick. If I did the math correctly that would mean a 72% conception rate on grade 1's and a 45% conception on grade 2's. Keep in mind this was using manual palpation we will dna test all calves to confirm. As far as setting up the recips we used the same protocol on recips as we use for our AI program. The 7 day timed protocol then eggs are pun in recips 7 days after they cycle. I think that covers everything.

Gizmom

 

[Franke]

We use the same 7 day protocol for the recips. We had 1 out of three stay in grade twos this year and 20 out of 26 on grade 1's. If we don't see the recips come into heat they don't get used and our embryologist isn't afraid to pass on a cow he doesn't think feels right. But weather and body condition and stress levels can all change year to year. Last year we went 3 for 3 on grade 2's with two heifers and that same mating gave us 1 for 3 with a bull this year. We had two bulls out of three fresh eggs last year and their flushmates that were frozen was a bull and heifer this year both times out of three. A good year for us but we always want to do better.

 

[Franke]

We also record which cows don't come around and which cows get passed on and which cows don't stick so that if there are ones that just aren't working we aren't throwing money away on them.

 

[gizmom]

Franke

I agree if a cow doesn't take an egg once we will give her a second chance if she doesn't take a second time we quit using her. The cost of ET work is to high to throw away eggs on cows that are not working. Not to mention the cost and time involved in setting them up. We have two cows at the embryologist facility now, he flushed both once so far. One cow did really good producing 8 eggs this was the best result we have ever had on this cow. The first flush was to a bull we owned that is now deceased Coleman EXT 6149. We have 7 calves out of the same mating on the ground right now and they are just flat out good. The other cow only produced one egg, this cow usually averages 7 eggs per flush so I don't know what happened with that one. The first flush on her was also to 6149, we have a first calf heifer out of that mating that is one of the top bred heifers in the pen. She has a heifer calf on her side that is really good has maintained condition and bred back so checking all of the boxes thus far. The next flush on both cows will be using sexed heifer semen out of Extension. We have never used sexed semen before so hopefully it works out ok. The plan is to flush both three times then bring them home. If 0524 starts producing one more time to 6149 I really want to make some more females out of that mating.

Edited to add

NEfarmwife

I won't purchase without a 50% guarantee, the guarantee usually stipulates that you use a certified embryologist. Also if the eggs are IVF your conception rate will go down and most sellers will not give you a 50% guarantee on IVF eggs.

Gizmom

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

I'm interested as well in the setup for fresh versus frozen. I've got 4 cows I'm thinking about putting Wagyu embryos in this fall. Do the cows need to be in heat to implant?

You implant the eggs after heat, typically a week after because you need the embryo to match the same cycle as the donor when she was flushed and those eggs became embryos.

We have a good embryologist and good conditioned cows. Scratching my head on conception with embryos we purchased because our own embryos had a much better conception rate.

If I ever purchase embryos again, I'll have a 50% guarantee. I know death after birth isn't their problem. Just frustrated.

I'd however, love to have gizmoms conception rates.

You know who I buy most of my eggs from and they do a 50% guaranty for me. We use a certified embryologist.

I will find out how my own flush eggs did next week when the vet comes out. I am on pins and needles because my favorite cow ever only had three eggs this last flush, I have no progeny left and she now has a foot problem for which she is running out of time.

 

[NEFarmwife]

I'm interested as well in the setup for fresh versus frozen. I've got 4 cows I'm thinking about putting Wagyu embryos in this fall. Do the cows need to be in heat to implant?

You implant the eggs after heat, typically a week after because you need the embryo to match the same cycle as the donor when she was flushed and those eggs became embryos.

We have a good embryologist and good conditioned cows. Scratching my head on conception with embryos we purchased because our own embryos had a much better conception rate.

If I ever purchase embryos again, I'll have a 50% guarantee. I know death after birth isn't their problem. Just frustrated.

I'd however, love to have gizmoms conception rates.

You know who I buy most of my eggs from and they do a 50% guaranty for me. We use a certified embryologist.

I will find out how my own flush eggs did next week when the vet comes out. I am on pins and needles because my favorite cow ever only had three eggs this last flush, I have no progeny left and she now has a foot problem for which she is running out of time.

Interesting, that's who we got ours from. The one calf we got from the embryos we bought is a beauty. She's now considered the $2500 embryo.

We recently purchased our own donor and have a couple more that we are flushing. Our donor had 9 good eggs on her first flush with us. Her eggs will be placed next week. Also doing a live transfer on a different flush here in a couple weeks. Hoping we get better results.

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

You implant the eggs after heat, typically a week after because you need the embryo to match the same cycle as the donor when she was flushed and those eggs became embryos.

We have a good embryologist and good conditioned cows. Scratching my head on conception with embryos we purchased because our own embryos had a much better conception rate.

If I ever purchase embryos again, I'll have a 50% guarantee. I know death after birth isn't their problem. Just frustrated.

I'd however, love to have gizmoms conception rates.

You know who I buy most of my eggs from and they do a 50% guaranty for me. We use a certified embryologist.

I will find out how my own flush eggs did next week when the vet comes out. I am on pins and needles because my favorite cow ever only had three eggs this last flush, I have no progeny left and she now has a foot problem for which she is running out of time.

Interesting, that's who we got ours from. The one calf we got from the embryos we bought is a beauty. She's now considered the $2500 embryo.

We recently purchased our own donor and have a couple more that we are flushing. Our donor had 9 good eggs on her first flush with us. Her eggs will be placed next week. Also doing a live transfer on a different flush here in a couple weeks. Hoping we get better results.

Nine eggs is strong! That's a great flush.

Yeah, we don't have a written agreement with them on the eggs but they have taken care of us before when things didn't take. Make sure you don't tell them I told you though! We also just bought $25K of eggs from them. We love their operation.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Great information here! I will throw out some numbers I have crunched on our cattle and embryos;
First, we purchase all of our embryos, so they are frozen
Second, in most cases, we use natural heats. The only time we do not is the last week of November when we are starting our fall breeding season, then we set up all the recips at the same time.
Third, a cow get's two chances for an embryo. If she does not stick the second embryo, we AI her.

OK, so here are my numbers on actual known embryos and resulting calves:
6-1 - we have only ever put one in, and it stuck
5-1 - 13 total - 9 (one was an IVF) that stuck, results of known calves were 3 bulls and 3 heifers (the other three are in cows right now). 4 others resulted in non pregnancies (69% conception on 5-1).
5-2 - 2 put in total, one pregnancy one non pregnancy (IVF)
4-1 - 33 total, 15 pregnancies (two on the ground - one of each sex). 18 non pregnancies (45% conception)
4-2 - 10 total, 6 pregnancies (3 bulls, one heifer), 4 non pregnancies (60% conception).

 

[NEFarmwife]

Our second flush to one donor, who had 9 good eggs last time...had 4 this time. However, it was sexed semen (treasure), which we knew may not result in the same number of good embryos. We did do a live transfer this time though, of all 4.

My other donor is going to flush the 1st week of May. We're still determining what we'll breed her to.