Cliven Bundy

[hurleyjd]

Arrested at the Portland Oregon airport.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Arrested at the Portland Oregon airport.

The Feds are not going to give upon this family.
I am surprised they haven't woke up dead yet.
And the propaganda arm of the Gestapo hates everything they stand for .
Loves everything the groups that burn pillage and plunder are for.
This country is upside down.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The government just keeps pushing and pushing. How long will it be before all FBI agents and their families are targets? The FBI seems like their on the same scale as terrorist now. The way I see it is, there's no real way to peacefully negotiate or reason with the government. Bullies only understand one thing and that's the use of force. And till the officers lose some skin or kin it's only a game to them, and they have no reason to care about the outcome.

 

[farmguy]

"Bullies only understand one thing and that's the use of force"

I agree bullies use their fists, weapons or whatever and then when cornered they cry how they are being mistreated. I am so sick of the whole victim mentality whether you are gay, bisexual, black, white or a BLM rancher. I told my kids "life is not fair" but these are the facts and this is the cards you were dealt. There comes a time when everyone must or should take responsibility for their actions. This is a nation of laws and those laws are enforced, praise God. From reading some posts it would appear that if you don't like a law, ignore it? I say if you don't like a law, work to change it but within the law or expect to be in violation. A peaceful protest does not involve automatic weapons, threats and destruction of property. Cliven Bundy broke the law period. If you
want everyone to interpret the law for themselves go to the mid east. As a veteran believe me those who took over the refugee and those who were with Cliven Bundy would not survive. farmguy

 

[Cross-7]

Did Cliven break the law ?
Do you have all the facts ?
Or do you just blindly believe the propaganda

 

[TexasBred]

Did Cliven break the law ?
Do you have all the facts ?
Or do you just blindly believe the propaganda

Do you?? Are we not all bound by the laws of our country or do we ignore those we disagree with and promote anarchy while hiding behind the very constitution and laws we agree with while breaking those that we feel don't apply to ME. Maybe the tree of freedom is being refreshed with the blood of patriots & tyrants... it is it's natural manure .

 

[SteppedInIt]

"Bullies only understand one thing and that's the use of force"

I agree bullies use their fists, weapons or whatever and then when cornered they cry how they are being mistreated. I am so sick of the whole victim mentality whether you are gay, bisexual, black, white or a BLM rancher. I told my kids "life is not fair" but these are the facts and this is the cards you were dealt. There comes a time when everyone must or should take responsibility for their actions. This is a nation of laws and those laws are enforced, praise God. From reading some posts it would appear that if you don't like a law, ignore it? I say if you don't like a law, work to change it but within the law or expect to be in violation. A peaceful protest does not involve automatic weapons, threats and destruction of property. Cliven Bundy broke the law period. If you
want everyone to interpret the law for themselves go to the mid east. As a veteran believe me those who took over the refugee and those who were with Cliven Bundy would not survive. farmguy

I agree with most of what you stated, but when the law is abused by those in power for political gain at the expense of law abiding citizens, your saying to live with it. I don't think so. The only weapons USED were in the hands of government agents. What property was damaged or destroyed? The property destroyed in Cliven's situation was done by government agents. In Oregon, property was destroyed by government agents. The peace was broken by government agents.

 

[Cross-7]

Did Cliven break the law ?
Do you have all the facts ?
Or do you just blindly believe the propaganda

Do you?? Are we not all bound by the laws of our country or do we ignore those we disagree with and promote anarchy while hiding behind the very constitution and laws we agree with while breaking those that we feel don't apply to ME. Maybe the tree of freedom is being refreshed with the blood of patriots & tyrants... it is it's natural manure .

Nope I don't have the fact
I haven't researched the Nevada water rights
I don't fully understand what has happened to the water rights over the years or how they apply today.
That's why I haven't pasted judgement on Cliven or anyone involved
I do believe the use of the endangered species act was just a tool to remove the 50 plus ranchers off there land
I've read and heard so much I don't know what's true
Harry Reid involvement to vast underground water so who knows

But to just blindly jump on board and call someone a criminal is ignorance
Lynch mob mentality
But I've a job to do instead of playing internet lawyer

 

[hurleyjd]

Did Cliven break the law ?
Do you have all the facts ?
Or do you just blindly believe the propaganda

Do you?? Are we not all bound by the laws of our country or do we ignore those we disagree with and promote anarchy while hiding behind the very constitution and laws we agree with while breaking those that we feel don't apply to ME. Maybe the tree of freedom is being refreshed with the blood of patriots & tyrants... it is it's natural manure .

Nope I don't have the fact
I haven't researched the Nevada water rights
I don't fully understand what has happened to the water rights over the years or how they apply today.
That's why I haven't pasted judgement on Cliven or anyone involved
I do believe the use of the endangered species act was just a tool to remove the 50 plus ranchers off there land
I've read and heard so much I don't know what's true
Harry Reid involvement to vast underground water so who knows

But to just blindly jump on board and call someone a criminal is ignorance
Lynch mob mentality
But I've a job to do instead of playing internet lawyer

http://www.water-law.com/water-rights-a ... er-rights/

 

[Cross-7]

Let's say Cliven doesn't have any water rights
Say he is no different than the other 50 ranchers that had their cattle allotment cut.

If he or they felt that use of the endangered species act was used only to take their grazing rights
To force them off the land

Does that make them wrong for fighting back if they feel they were being done an injustice
If they felt the powers in place wanted it and were using their use of power to take it
Does that make the BLM or whoever is behind it, does that make it right because they employed by the government so they make the rules and take what they want ?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I can't wrap my head around western water rights.
Here the water that runs across your land is yours! With the exception
you can't stop or divert the flow of a natural stream from your neighbor.
But then again the Federal government doesn't own the majority of the state.
The whole concept of federal land and the BLM violate the tenth amendment IMO.
I would have no problem if it was state law by the voters of the state.

 

[farmguy]

Who owns the land? Cannot an owner of property decide what to do with their land and what their priorities are? I rented some land for years then the owners first raised the rent as rental values went up. Then they let their son manage the land for a family deer hunting site. I was allowed to only use a small part of the acreage at the higher rental rate. My father could have purchased the land many years ago for next to nothing but he did not. Was I a victim? What should I have done?

 

[fenceman]

"Bullies only understand one thing and that's the use of force"

I agree bullies use their fists, weapons or whatever and then when cornered they cry how they are being mistreated. I am so sick of the whole victim mentality whether you are gay, bisexual, black, white or a BLM rancher. I told my kids "life is not fair" but these are the facts and this is the cards you were dealt. There comes a time when everyone must or should take responsibility for their actions. This is a nation of laws and those laws are enforced, praise God. From reading some posts it would appear that if you don't like a law, ignore it? I say if you don't like a law, work to change it but within the law or expect to be in violation. A peaceful protest does not involve automatic weapons, threats and destruction of property. Cliven Bundy broke the law period. If you
want everyone to interpret the law for themselves go to the mid east. As a veteran believe me those who took over the refugee and those who were with Cliven Bundy would not survive. farmguy

I agree with most of what you stated, but when the law is abused by those in power for political gain at the expense of law abiding citizens, your saying to live with it. I don't think so. The only weapons USED were in the hands of government agents. What property was damaged or destroyed? The property destroyed in Cliven's situation was done by government agents. In Oregon, property was destroyed by government agents. The peace was broken by government agents.

We'll said stepped in it. The bullies here are the Fed's. Farm guy's words are good but he's got his bullies confused.
We thank you for your service farmguy. But this country you served was built by anarchists who didn't take their spanking like good little boys.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Who owns the land? Cannot an owner of property decide what to do with their land and what their priorities are? I rented some land for years then the owners first raised the rent as rental values went up. Then they let their son manage the land for a family deer hunting site. I was allowed to only use a small part of the acreage at the higher rental rate. My father could have purchased the land many years ago for next to nothing but he did not. Was I a victim? What should I have done?

And this s where the problem lies. The Feds don't own it.
There were, however, a few reasons to have the national government own property: for a seat of government, for military uses, and for needful buildings. This is the very limited power given to Congress in the Constitution:

"To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings" (Art I, Sect. 8, Clause 17)


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Violates the first as well unless you want to loot,rape burn and pillage.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It all comes down to urban mentality versus rural.
Mostly the color of his skin, if he where Jesse Jackson they would have thrown him a parade.

 

[Cross-7]

Who owns the land? Cannot an owner of property decide what to do with their land and what their priorities are? I rented some land for years then the owners first raised the rent as rental values went up. Then they let their son manage the land for a family deer hunting site. I was allowed to only use a small part of the acreage at the higher rental rate. My father could have purchased the land many years ago for next to nothing but he did not. Was I a victim? What should I have done?

That's the point I'm trying to make
The powers in government don't own it
Just because of their capacity in government doesn't give them the right to do as they please with the land to benefit themselves or their personal agenda

 

[Cross-7]

Who owns the land? Cannot an owner of property decide what to do with their land and what their priorities are? I rented some land for years then the owners first raised the rent as rental values went up. Then they let their son manage the land for a family deer hunting site. I was allowed to only use a small part of the acreage at the higher rental rate. My father could have purchased the land many years ago for next to nothing but he did not. Was I a victim? What should I have done?

And this s where the problem lies. The Feds don't own it.
There were, however, a few reasons to have the national government own property: for a seat of government, for military uses, and for needful buildings. This is the very limited power given to Congress in the Constitution:

"To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings" (Art I, Sect. 8, Clause 17)


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Violates the first as well unless you want to loot,rape burn and pillage.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It all comes down to urban mentality versus rural.
Mostly the color of his skin, if he where Jesse Jackson they would have thrown him a parade.

Spot on !

 

[ChrisB]

The problem is the property clause in the constitution. And it's been upheld by the supreme court on numerous occasions. This does say that the government does in fact have the right to own the land and rule on it how they see fit.

It would be best if the federal government could/would transfer most of the lands to the states. But I'm not even sure if the states want control of it.

 

[Dave]

Back to the arrest. What crime did Cliven commit? If they are arresting him because of his issue with the BLM in Nevada why did they arrest him at the Portland airport? If they arrested him because of the stuff going on in Harney County..... he wasn't in Harney County. Hasn't even been there. He got on a plane in Vegas and when he got off in Portland they arrested him. Portland is about an 8 hour drive from Harney County.
I know people in Harney County and the heavy handed behavior of the Feds has gotten out of control. The people who have been staying out of this are getting close to the breaking point. And if they do break it won't be towards Bundy and associates.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The problem is the property clause in the constitution. And it's been upheld by the supreme court on numerous occasions. This does say that the government does in fact have the right to own the land and rule on it how they see fit.

It would be best if the federal government could/would transfer most of the lands to the states. But I'm not even sure if the states want control of it.

No that BS was sold to the North in 1861.
It was about loss of our rights of the people to the tyranny of D.C.
Or should I say 566 tyrants 435 Congressmen, 100 Senators, 9 Supreme Court Justices
1 POS POTUS backed by the POS vice.

This is about power and money and the greed of DC

 

[dun]

Who owns the land? Cannot an owner of property decide what to do with their land and what their priorities are? I rented some land for years then the owners first raised the rent as rental values went up. Then they let their son manage the land for a family deer hunting site. I was allowed to only use a small part of the acreage at the higher rental rate. My father could have purchased the land many years ago for next to nothing but he did not. Was I a victim? What should I have done?

And this s where the problem lies. The Feds don't own it.
There were, however, a few reasons to have the national government own property: for a seat of government, for military uses, and for needful buildings. This is the very limited power given to Congress in the Constitution:

"To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings" (Art I, Sect. 8, Clause 17)


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Violates the first as well unless you want to loot,rape burn and pillage.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It all comes down to urban mentality versus rural.
Mostly the color of his skin, if he where Jesse Jackson they would have thrown him a parade.

The tricky part is the fed gov deeded every other section of land along the right of way to the railroads so they would build the transcontinental railroad. Seems that would pretty much spell out that they owned it, or that at least ownership was assumed.