Calving23

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GoWyo said:
Are the calf jackets a good thing? Seems the dam can't lick the calf very well to dry them out and fluff up their hair and retained moisture would be colder than without the jacket, but I have no idea.
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We let the cow lick the calf for around one hour. We found that the calf become warm more rapidly with a jacket.
 
kenny thomas said:
What is a mud boat
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I don't remember too much, but as a young kid I amazed at the drilling rig....and how much they drank and played cards in the doghouse.
Best I can remember it was a big sled-like boat they pulled with a dozer across the corn fields. They used to bring drilling mud to the rig on them and as far as I know that is how everyone got to the rig when you couldn't drive to it.
 
I do not discriminate against twins. I have never seen an increase in twins out of twins. I had 1 cow that had about 5 sets of twins - culled at age 15. One of her daughters had her first set of twins at age 15 - raised both thru the winter - weaned her twin heifers and culled this spring because she was open at 16 years old. Simmental cattle are extremely fertile cattle. It used to be 8% was the average for twins - for all breeds - and Simmental was 13%. Not sure how accurate those numbers are today.
I'm not saying I love twins. Very mixed feelings. Yes, they can be extremely profitable - but - can be hard on the dam - can be dystocia - can be retained placenta (although I cannot remember the last time that happened here) - can make re-breeding slower.
Most my cows raise the twins and rebreed fine. And, if there is a screw up and another cow loses a calf, I splice a twin on her. I NEVER buy a calf for a cow. Will NEVER bring in an animal from another source for biosecurity.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
I do not discriminate against twins. I have never seen an increase in twins out of twins. I had 1 cow that had about 5 sets of twins - culled at age 15. One of her daughters had her first set of twins at age 15 - raised both thru the winter - weaned her twin heifers and culled this spring because she was open at 16 years old. Simmental cattle are extremely fertile cattle. It used to be 8% was the average for twins - for all breeds - and Simmental was 13%. Not sure how accurate those numbers are today.
I'm not saying I love twins. Very mixed feelings. Yes, they can be extremely profitable - but - can be hard on the dam - can be dystocia - can be retained placenta (although I cannot remember the last time that happened here) - can make re-breeding slower.
Most my cows raise the twins and rebreed fine. And, if there is a screw up and another cow loses a calf, I splice a twin on her. I NEVER buy a calf for a cow. Will NEVER bring in an animal from another source for biosecurity.
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I almost missed your reply... glad I caught it.

8% seems high, 13% VERY high. One of my favorite cows, beautiful, intelligent, docile, and an easy breeder, had a single calf the first time and twinned every time after that. She delivered all of them without assistance but half were dead. It wrenched my heart when any were dead, but two dead in the same parturition was terrible. I kept one of the first surviving heifers and she delivered twins the first time, refusing one calf. The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, I guess. I avoided twins after that with a passion and felt better for it.
 
Not to interrupt but I believe the US Meat Research Center in Clay Center (?) Nebraska determined that the twinning gene
is determined by the bull.
 
Lee VanRoss said:
Not to interrupt but I believe the US Meat Research Center in Clay Center (?) Nebraska determined that the twinning gene
is determined by the bull.
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Not my experience, but I suppose there could be multiple ways any trait could show up. Since I've avoided owning cows that produce twins I am no expert.
 
The US Meat Animal Research Center facility in Clay Center NE maintains several thousand animals for researching methods of increasing
livestock production and experiments. The last I knew it was staffed by over 40 scientists and 70+ technicians.
Address is 844 Rd 313 Clay Center, NE68933 Ph 402 762 4100
While their results may not be as entertaining as CT I have found them useful and reliable over the years.
 
kenny thomas said:
What is a mud boat
Click to expand...
Mountaintown Creek Ranch said:
I don't remember too much, but as a young kid I amazed at the drilling rig....and how much they drank and played cards in the doghouse.
Best I can remember it was a big sled-like boat they pulled with a dozer across the corn fields. They used to bring drilling mud to the rig on them and as far as I know that is how everyone got to the rig when you couldn't drive to it.
Click to expand...
Yes, they're flat bottom with a pipe frame, trucks can drive on them. The dozer drives out to the end of the winch line, pulls the boat to him, and repeat. Ground has to be pretty slick to work well.
 
Lee VanRoss said:
The US Meat Animal Research Center facility in Clay Center NE maintains several thousand animals for researching methods of increasing
livestock production and experiments. The last I knew it was staffed by over 40 scientists and 70+ technicians.
Address is 844 Rd 313 Clay Center, NE68933 Ph 402 762 4100
While their results may not be as entertaining as CT I have found them useful and reliable over the years.
Click to expand...
I've tried to find any mention of the male animal being the carrier for twinning genes, especially related to your exampled facility, but haven't found anything. If you have a link I'd be interested in reading their study.
 
Travlr said:
I've tried to find any mention of the male animal being the carrier for twinning genes, especially related to your exampled facility, but haven't found anything. If you have a link I'd be interested in reading their study.
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Will try. Research ended several years ago. It may take a phone call or letter of request.
 
Travlr said:
Yeah, I saw the phone number but my experience it is hard to get through to anyone that knows and they're busy anyways. Just hoping you had it available. Don't sweat it.
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Didn't mean to send you down a rabbit hole. I remember when MARC sold off the twinning bulls in the early 2000's they were advertised as such.
I would think that bulls from high percentage twinning cows would carry some of those genetics.. If I remember correctly the twinning herd
increased from about a 2% twinning rate to around 140 + calves per 100 cows. One problem is any bull - heifer combination will result in a
freemartin. Also gestation time tends to run up to a week less in duration and herd conditioning and labor can become an issue.
Apparently twinning is a female function although it would not be unreasonable to think continued twinning would result in bulls that would
contribute to the increase in births. I would not suggest a beef twinning project for a novice in the business.
As a side note , Shorthorn, Hereford and Angus had the lowest rate of twinning with the dairy breeds the highest with continentals
falling somewhere in the middle.
 
Lee VanRoss said:
Didn't mean to send you down a rabbit hole. I remember when MARC sold off the twinning bulls in the early 2000's they were advertised as such.
I would think that bulls from high percentage twinning cows would carry some of those genetics.. If I remember correctly the twinning herd
increased from about a 2% twinning rate to around 140 + calves per 100 cows. One problem is any bull - heifer combination will result in a
freemartin. Also gestation time tends to run up to a week less in duration and herd conditioning and labor can become an issue.
Apparently twinning is a female function although it would not be unreasonable to think continued twinning would result in bulls that would
contribute to the increase in births. I would not suggest a beef twinning project for a novice in the business.
As a side note , Shorthorn, Hereford and Angus had the lowest rate of twinning with the dairy breeds the highest with continentals
falling somewhere in the middle.
Click to expand...
I'm sitting here thinking about it and trying to justify my own experience (which is limited but overall fairly substantial from other sources) with what you said the results of the study were. Maybe it is that the bull can be a carrier because the genes involved are on the X chromosome and males have an X. But that also makes me think that the maternal side would also be carriers. Of course if a bull was a carrier he would be able to spread the trait farther than a cow.

I married into a family with some interesting genetic anomalies. The men can't smell, and they all have a family history for canker sores (not cold sores)... and there are twins. The twins in the family are traced down through the maternal side, but the inability to smell is traced down through the male side... and yet she and her sisters have all had boys that can't smell.
 
Lee VanRoss said:
Not to interrupt but I believe the US Meat Research Center in Clay Center (?) Nebraska determined that the twinning gene
is determined by the bull.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I don't think I heard that, but that would explain why my twins are not known twinners!!
Yes, the cow either produces 2 eggs that get fertilized or an embryo splits.
I put 2 embryos in a couple years apart from the same flush and both produced twin heifers - both lived. Sold 1 of each set and kept 1. Actually, one just calved this morning and gave me a heifer after we had about 6 bulls in a row! WooHoo
Actually, the research I have read says it is more dependent on NUTRITION to the cow.
 
Here is a copy of the MARC research:
www.beefmagazine.com

Cattle Genetics recent news | Beef Magazine

Explore the latest news and expert commentary on Cattle Genetics brought to you by the editors of Beef Magazine
www.beefmagazine.com www.beefmagazine.com
Travlr said:
I almost missed your reply... glad I caught it.

8% seems high, 13% VERY high. One of my favorite cows, beautiful, intelligent, docile, and an easy breeder, had a single calf the first time and twinned every time after that. She delivered all of them without assistance but half were dead. It wrenched my heart when any were dead, but two dead in the same parturition was terrible. I kept one of the first surviving heifers and she delivered twins the first time, refusing one calf. The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, I guess. I avoided twins after that with a passion and felt better for it.
Click to expand...
It was more likely .8% and 1.3% - that sounds a lot more realistic!! LOL Whatever, I generally get my 1% share!!
 

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