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Whats wrong with Simmental cattle?
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<blockquote data-quote="simme" data-source="post: 1819843" data-attributes="member: 40418"><p>My thinking - Registrations (papers) are a record of pedigree, individual performance (birth weight, weaning weight, yearling weight, in-herd ratio's of those, etc) and a tabulation of calculated epd's for the animals. That can be valuable information for cattle, whether purebred or crossbred. </p><p></p><p>My experience is with two breed associations - polled herefords for about 20 years and simmental for about 30 years. They are very different. APHA (now included in AHA) was/is similar to the AAA in organization, haves and have nots, secrecy and swampy, skeptical members, breeding certificates required for AI, lots of employees, run by elites. Just my view and opinion. Simmental association for me is different. Progressive, members are mostly trusting and supportive, no real rich people, open AI with no certificates/fees, programs for commercial producers, promotes crossbreeding and breed improvement, access to everyone, no elites. That's the way I see it.</p><p></p><p>All that to make this point - a commercial producer who retains replacements (with any breed composition) can enroll his cows in the database, receive registration numbers (papers), submit data just like the "pure' cattle, get calculated epds, gain access to dna testing tied to the information in the database which will lead to more accurate and valuable information with future generations. If a person sees value in data and epd's, then that allows a commercial cow/calf guy to get long term information on his cattle very similar to what a purebred herd would have. I don't think that the AAA or the AHA offers or has interest in offering that level of support for a commercial guy. Again, if you don't see the benefit in data, pedigree, epd's and dna, then there is nothing to be gained. But for a commercial guy looking to retain replacements and make long term improvements based on data, there should be value in a program that provides "papers" and more for crossbred cattle. </p><p></p><p>Sim-angus is not a breed. There is no defined/required % of simm and angus. There are no foundation animals used to develop a breed. There is no closed herd book after x numbers of generations. Sim-angus is a cross bred with simm and angus in the pedigree with a wide range of %, but comes with "papers", epd's, "breed" support, dna support including enhanced epd's. It is a little more than a "mutt". I would say it is a program, but not a breed. I think the indication of worth is related to acceptance by the industry. I would say that the acceptance of sim-angus is very good - in bull sales, AI studs, replacements, and feedlots. There are even purebred angus AAA breeders that also have sim-angus programs. Why would they have those unless they saw value in them and demand by their customers. </p><p></p><p>I think those are reasons to have registrations and "papers" on cattle that are not "pure". Some sell for a lot of money like the doodle dogs do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="simme, post: 1819843, member: 40418"] My thinking - Registrations (papers) are a record of pedigree, individual performance (birth weight, weaning weight, yearling weight, in-herd ratio's of those, etc) and a tabulation of calculated epd's for the animals. That can be valuable information for cattle, whether purebred or crossbred. My experience is with two breed associations - polled herefords for about 20 years and simmental for about 30 years. They are very different. APHA (now included in AHA) was/is similar to the AAA in organization, haves and have nots, secrecy and swampy, skeptical members, breeding certificates required for AI, lots of employees, run by elites. Just my view and opinion. Simmental association for me is different. Progressive, members are mostly trusting and supportive, no real rich people, open AI with no certificates/fees, programs for commercial producers, promotes crossbreeding and breed improvement, access to everyone, no elites. That's the way I see it. All that to make this point - a commercial producer who retains replacements (with any breed composition) can enroll his cows in the database, receive registration numbers (papers), submit data just like the "pure' cattle, get calculated epds, gain access to dna testing tied to the information in the database which will lead to more accurate and valuable information with future generations. If a person sees value in data and epd's, then that allows a commercial cow/calf guy to get long term information on his cattle very similar to what a purebred herd would have. I don't think that the AAA or the AHA offers or has interest in offering that level of support for a commercial guy. Again, if you don't see the benefit in data, pedigree, epd's and dna, then there is nothing to be gained. But for a commercial guy looking to retain replacements and make long term improvements based on data, there should be value in a program that provides "papers" and more for crossbred cattle. Sim-angus is not a breed. There is no defined/required % of simm and angus. There are no foundation animals used to develop a breed. There is no closed herd book after x numbers of generations. Sim-angus is a cross bred with simm and angus in the pedigree with a wide range of %, but comes with "papers", epd's, "breed" support, dna support including enhanced epd's. It is a little more than a "mutt". I would say it is a program, but not a breed. I think the indication of worth is related to acceptance by the industry. I would say that the acceptance of sim-angus is very good - in bull sales, AI studs, replacements, and feedlots. There are even purebred angus AAA breeders that also have sim-angus programs. Why would they have those unless they saw value in them and demand by their customers. I think those are reasons to have registrations and "papers" on cattle that are not "pure". Some sell for a lot of money like the doodle dogs do. [/QUOTE]
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