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<blockquote data-quote="RegCowman" data-source="post: 1169826" data-attributes="member: 22839"><p>CG8 --sounds like you have upset their Social Applecart --I approve! :clap: </p><p>Nice operation you have going looks like --keep up the good work. That's the problem with many cattle operators --everyone's an expert. </p><p></p><p>Traditional Simmental > IMHO</p><p></p><p>The Full Blood cattle are still very much lacking in the Marbling area. If you look at the Top 1% EPD for IMF for Fleck cattle they are even behind Simbrah. Like it or not at the end of the day we are all in the beef business not the cattle business. (Simbrah have improved their Marbling scores due to using more PBSM genetics over the last several years)</p><p></p><p>No one will discount us for providing a better cut, but they will discount us for providing beef with the consistency of a re-tread. I don't know anyone that goes to the steakhouse and intentionally orders a super lean steak that gets bigger in your mouth the more you chew it (except maybe the hippies out in California, but they still sniff glue and lick toads out there). Also, everyone has to raise the kind of cattle best suited for their particular "micro-climate" -- and some operations just don't have the land base for a cow/calf operation anyway - for those folks > Wal-mart is Hiring.</p><p></p><p>I really think -- many people see their improvement depending on an increase in quantity pounds and they are searching for that super bull out there somewhere that will give them this or they believe that bigger framed cows will increase WW's, YW's and their bottom line. They never really crunch the numbers on the inevitable increase in their annual cost of production for their cow herd when doing so and are more than likely making less than if they had left it alone. </p><p></p><p><u>Cow families play a huge role in predictability --- long before the EPD we used these quality parameters (cow families) -- its like CG8 keeping her young BWF bull off that older 1998 cow. She has a more than proven her track record for excellence under CG8's conditions. Want more of the same? Keep a bull out of that proven dam and put him to work.</u> </p><p></p><p>Usually quality pounds makes us more money than quantity pounds. (this is why a NY Strip costs more than a hamburger). </p><p></p><p>I know Simangus™ are in much demand these days and their market share has increased greatly especially since the drought of '12. Going to simangus is best done by using simangus bulls that have PB Simmental Dams and Angus Sires. This cross has been proven to provide the right amount of frame, milk, performance, carcass, bw, ww, yw ---- ect .... nowhere in this "equation" is there any Fleck genetics. </p><p> </p><p>We had some Fleck cattle over 30 years ago and yes some improvement has been realized but not really a lot. They are not unlike the Angus Assoc really in regards to not allowing anything in their registry but full blood cattle --this is referred to as a closed population -- and in this kind of population -- there is little to no variation or improvement --over time. The only "improvement" I have seen in Angus over the years is an increase in genetic defects from their most widely used genetic base - the 036 bloodline among a handful of others. </p><p></p><p>Why simangus hold the largest market share of all the crossbred cattle > because we can run <u>more</u> moderately framed cows on our ranch than we can large framed cows due in most part to a decrease in annual production costs (this one factor alone > larger cattle eat more than our more moderately framed cows do) --- (this is for the social club and not you CG8) </p><p>... this means that by running more moderately framed cows (simangus or pick another crossbred here) we actually are making more $$, because a larger number of cows means <u>more calves to sell</u> (which is the only way to make more $$ that's in thinking with quantity pounds theory) -- but imagine a cross that has proven to be better in quality pounds even though they may have lower weaning weights -- still make us more money with fewer inputs..... </p><p></p><p>If I had the choice in breeding I would use </p><p></p><p>Angus Bulls on PBSM cows > F 1 (although since 2012, Angus Mature Weight is higher than PBSM) (MM has increased in PBAN, due to selection)</p><p>F1 x Horned Hereford Bull (Like a Chandler Hereford out of Oregon) (This would decrease MM to a more suitable level)</p><p>or just bypass Simmental all together and return to what our grandparents were doing years ago and put a HH bull on an Angus cow. </p><p></p><p> :tiphat:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RegCowman, post: 1169826, member: 22839"] CG8 --sounds like you have upset their Social Applecart --I approve! :clap: Nice operation you have going looks like --keep up the good work. That's the problem with many cattle operators --everyone's an expert. Traditional Simmental > IMHO The Full Blood cattle are still very much lacking in the Marbling area. If you look at the Top 1% EPD for IMF for Fleck cattle they are even behind Simbrah. Like it or not at the end of the day we are all in the beef business not the cattle business. (Simbrah have improved their Marbling scores due to using more PBSM genetics over the last several years) No one will discount us for providing a better cut, but they will discount us for providing beef with the consistency of a re-tread. I don't know anyone that goes to the steakhouse and intentionally orders a super lean steak that gets bigger in your mouth the more you chew it (except maybe the hippies out in California, but they still sniff glue and lick toads out there). Also, everyone has to raise the kind of cattle best suited for their particular "micro-climate" -- and some operations just don't have the land base for a cow/calf operation anyway - for those folks > Wal-mart is Hiring. I really think -- many people see their improvement depending on an increase in quantity pounds and they are searching for that super bull out there somewhere that will give them this or they believe that bigger framed cows will increase WW's, YW's and their bottom line. They never really crunch the numbers on the inevitable increase in their annual cost of production for their cow herd when doing so and are more than likely making less than if they had left it alone. [u]Cow families play a huge role in predictability --- long before the EPD we used these quality parameters (cow families) -- its like CG8 keeping her young BWF bull off that older 1998 cow. She has a more than proven her track record for excellence under CG8's conditions. Want more of the same? Keep a bull out of that proven dam and put him to work.[/u] Usually quality pounds makes us more money than quantity pounds. (this is why a NY Strip costs more than a hamburger). I know Simangus™ are in much demand these days and their market share has increased greatly especially since the drought of '12. Going to simangus is best done by using simangus bulls that have PB Simmental Dams and Angus Sires. This cross has been proven to provide the right amount of frame, milk, performance, carcass, bw, ww, yw ---- ect .... nowhere in this "equation" is there any Fleck genetics. We had some Fleck cattle over 30 years ago and yes some improvement has been realized but not really a lot. They are not unlike the Angus Assoc really in regards to not allowing anything in their registry but full blood cattle --this is referred to as a closed population -- and in this kind of population -- there is little to no variation or improvement --over time. The only "improvement" I have seen in Angus over the years is an increase in genetic defects from their most widely used genetic base - the 036 bloodline among a handful of others. Why simangus hold the largest market share of all the crossbred cattle > because we can run [u]more[/u] moderately framed cows on our ranch than we can large framed cows due in most part to a decrease in annual production costs (this one factor alone > larger cattle eat more than our more moderately framed cows do) --- (this is for the social club and not you CG8) ... this means that by running more moderately framed cows (simangus or pick another crossbred here) we actually are making more $$, because a larger number of cows means [u]more calves to sell[/u] (which is the only way to make more $$ that's in thinking with quantity pounds theory) -- but imagine a cross that has proven to be better in quality pounds even though they may have lower weaning weights -- still make us more money with fewer inputs..... If I had the choice in breeding I would use Angus Bulls on PBSM cows > F 1 (although since 2012, Angus Mature Weight is higher than PBSM) (MM has increased in PBAN, due to selection) F1 x Horned Hereford Bull (Like a Chandler Hereford out of Oregon) (This would decrease MM to a more suitable level) or just bypass Simmental all together and return to what our grandparents were doing years ago and put a HH bull on an Angus cow. :tiphat: [/QUOTE]
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