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SAV Net Worth 4200 (Angus)
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<blockquote data-quote="Aero" data-source="post: 633699" data-attributes="member: 2076"><p>If you think 900-1000 lb weaning weights are possible without heavy supplementation, you must be stuck in a university lab or doing the metric conversion backwards. I know what it takes to get calves to 900+ lbs at weaning, we have done it over and over. Who did it help? nobody but the feed salesmen. who did it hurt? everybody else.</p><p></p><p>I dont have any problem with them getting a ton of money for their bulls; I am glad they are having great success. But if they really think they are helping commercial cattlemen reach long-term profitability, they are fools. If they are not fools, they are using a marketing trick to get money out of producers that put faith into a breeding program they think is helping them and has pretty bulls to sell. read the intro to their latest sale book: "<em>Our breeding philosophy emphasizes performance, fertility, fleshing-ease and udder quality, along with the ability for a cow to wean a heavy calf under range conditions year after year.</em>" If you can find one rancher that weans 1000 lbs "under range conditions", call me. I am going to see him right now.</p><p></p><p>There is a certain amount of additional intake that is required to compensate for cold temperatures. this is to maintain condition, and not a preventive measure. if the animals need that much fat to make it through the winter, they are not suited to their environment... probably because of the blind numbers chasing. but that's not the case; those calves would make it through just fine weaning at 400 lbs. the bulls would have a longer productive life and would actually gain weight when they reached their new homes, but who can market 400 lb weaning weights? It's just an artificial environment that doesnt prepare the bulls (or cows) to live anywhere but there.</p><p></p><p>take their best 10 cows and put them in Wyoming on the range with 10 mediocre cows from Shoshone for 5 years and see which group weans more total pounds.</p><p></p><p>you're right, I dont bash Mark for a few reasons. 1) he is a friend of mine, 2) he is very upfront that they are raising terminal bulls focusing on EPDs, and 3) i dont read that much stuff on here about their program.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aero, post: 633699, member: 2076"] If you think 900-1000 lb weaning weights are possible without heavy supplementation, you must be stuck in a university lab or doing the metric conversion backwards. I know what it takes to get calves to 900+ lbs at weaning, we have done it over and over. Who did it help? nobody but the feed salesmen. who did it hurt? everybody else. I dont have any problem with them getting a ton of money for their bulls; I am glad they are having great success. But if they really think they are helping commercial cattlemen reach long-term profitability, they are fools. If they are not fools, they are using a marketing trick to get money out of producers that put faith into a breeding program they think is helping them and has pretty bulls to sell. read the intro to their latest sale book: "[i]Our breeding philosophy emphasizes performance, fertility, fleshing-ease and udder quality, along with the ability for a cow to wean a heavy calf under range conditions year after year.[/i]" If you can find one rancher that weans 1000 lbs "under range conditions", call me. I am going to see him right now. There is a certain amount of additional intake that is required to compensate for cold temperatures. this is to maintain condition, and not a preventive measure. if the animals need that much fat to make it through the winter, they are not suited to their environment... probably because of the blind numbers chasing. but that's not the case; those calves would make it through just fine weaning at 400 lbs. the bulls would have a longer productive life and would actually gain weight when they reached their new homes, but who can market 400 lb weaning weights? It's just an artificial environment that doesnt prepare the bulls (or cows) to live anywhere but there. take their best 10 cows and put them in Wyoming on the range with 10 mediocre cows from Shoshone for 5 years and see which group weans more total pounds. you're right, I dont bash Mark for a few reasons. 1) he is a friend of mine, 2) he is very upfront that they are raising terminal bulls focusing on EPDs, and 3) i dont read that much stuff on here about their program. [/QUOTE]
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