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<blockquote data-quote="HerefordSire" data-source="post: 398736" data-attributes="member: 4437"><p>am reposting this as I feel it is important for the beginner </p><p>maybe this time we can have a cattle discussion. </p><p></p><p><em>If you are a newbie and you are playing with $1K in cash would be a big difference when investing in a cattle operations. Generally, if you are going little time, the following original opinion may have merit. If you are going big time, see who the leaders are and determine how they got there.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have said all this at one time or other but we seem to have an influx of newbies. </p><p>So you want to raise cattle and be profitable. First learn to farm grass. </p><p></p><p><em>Before you go further, what was your profit last year? What kind of numbers are we talking about? $1K, $10K, $100K? The reason I ask, since I am a newbie, there is no need to heed advice from someone that doesn't show a profit, especially, one that is trying to show how to profit from cattle. Your grass farm line was good as I see you post it numerous places and even saw photos of your grass pastures. Maybe you make your profit on selling grass to drought stricken areas for twice what the normal market is.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well lets start with the cow the best cow is a Hereford type(red cow) momma as your options are endless to follow the market.</p><p>You want black calf's you have Angus, Brangus, Simm buckskin calves Char red Hereford etc change your color by changing the bull. You have more options with a red cow.. </p><p></p><p><em>This is absolutely not true. Also, I am trying to raise Polled Hereford seed stock. This is a biased statement. Any breed can be crossed with another breed. The options are identical. It is the perceived target markets which fluctuate and Hereford crosses are not as healthy as black markets.</em></p><p></p><p>Now we need to find a reputable seed stock producer if they haven't been a producer at least 10 years drive on by as they are more than likely a flash in the pan breeder. </p><p></p><p><em>Baloney! They must be in East Texas, longer than ten years in business breeding seed stock, the breeder must be from European heritage, be between 5'6" and 6'0" tall, have a tattoo and earrings, etc. Some of the most talented breeders are the new breeders as they don't have all the garbage in the brain. </em></p><p></p><p>You want to search for cattle from a similar environment you don't want to shop for cows in Canada where they have strong grass and optimum growth temperatures and haul them to South Texas where there is weak grass and hot temps and expect them to perform. </p><p></p><p><em>Baloney! Genetically speaking, over a couple of 100 years, cattle didn't have time to adapt. A cow will adapt fine from one area to the next, specifically from Canada to the southern US. The Hereford breed came from Europe and took over the entire US without being adapted in a short 400 years or so. It takes several million of years to make any difference and specific body parts begin to form to promote the evolution of the species.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now when you get out and start talking to this seed stock producer if he is yakkity yak epd's get in the truck and leave this is not a breed by the number business. </p><p></p><p><em>Make sure you are dealing with someone that knows what EPDs are, and then make sure they use them. If you do not own a truck, you may want to get into your car.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The reputable produce will ask what are you looking for and if he can't fill that bill he will direct you to who can. </p><p></p><p><em>Baloney! There are all types of breeders, experienced and not experienced, that will not ask you what you are looking for.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The best buy is a 3-an-1 now you want to see this girl in the pasture if she is a BCS of 4.5 to 5 this is ok she is converting grass to milk to cash while growing another one in the oven. </p><p></p><p><em>In my view, I generally like this opinion although the market changes all the time and this statement could be disadvantageous.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You want to find out if these cows are on welfare and being fed if they are these are high maintenance cows. If they can't perform on grass drive on. </p><p></p><p><em>Baloney! It would be nice to know if the breeder has raised the cows on grass alone when inspecting the animal and EPDs. Cows which can produce according to your plan should be attractive for purchase not if all they have ever had is grass. Sometimes grass is higher in price than non-grass feed products. It depends on climate and market supply and demand.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>Second choice is Heavies you are looking for cows 5 to 7 years old as these cows know how to work. </p><p></p><p><em>Disregard this advice completely. The younger they are, generally they are higher priced, as they are more valuable and do not depreciate as fast but they depreciate more totally. While the 5-7 age cows are mature and know how to work and they may be priced attractively according to your goals, it depends on many other variables before anyone can safely openly recommend this.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are looking for a cow that will give you a 6 weight calf at 205 days. </p><p></p><p><em>600 pound weaning weight is low in Texas if you have a successful operation. If you supplement the herd with native Texas grown supplements, 7-800 is feasible with the right genetics. The trick may be avoiding the wrong genetics.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This should be a moderate frame cow as she will require less feed maximizing profit. </p><p></p><p><em>Ask for the poster's proof on this one as I have yet to see evidence. For example, what type of frame is more profitable, a 5 frame or a 5.5 frame? Sounds like he slinging a gun from the hip after drinking a slug of George Dickel.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>Buying 3n1's or Heavies gives you more time to search for the best bull for your operation.</p><p></p><p><em>Baloney! Time is constant. It may seem like you have more time. In reality, derivatives are all calculated on time and risk. As target time shortens, risk is variable.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now the bull you pull up to XYZ Angus ranch you you see a a 1400 pound bull a 2000 pounder both have a 205 6 weight growth average you want the 1400 pounder he is cheaper to maintain and actually has better growth rate than the 2000 behemoth. </p><p></p><p><em>Again, ask for proof from the poster. Although he may very well be accurate in the claim, there are just too many variables to measure. There are also exceptions to every rule.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You will market the majority of you calf's through a sale barn so you look for the animal that achieves the weight with the least input on grass. </p><p></p><p><em>You cannot sell to friends outside of the sale barn. You cannot sell through the internet, etc. You cannot sell through the newspaper, thrifty nickel, it must be the sale barn, got it? Forget slling directy for a program or packer, of a feed company….because that way, I can't capitalize of the total value of your animal(s).</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now the bulls are going to be from anywhere on food stamps to full blown welfare. </p><p></p><p><em>Again, this is bulloney! The bulls are the same as cows in that they can be corn fed to grass fed. Each operation is different. What is important is…. match the plan to the genetics.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If the breeder tells you the young man is on 5-7 pounds of ration a day he is going to slip some when you put him to work, if he is on 10 pounds or more he is going to fall, this is expounded by terrain and temperature that he has to work in. </p><p></p><p><em>See how this breeder works?</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You need to look for calving ease low birth weight bulls you can't sell dead calves.</p><p></p><p><em>Growth rates are generally higher for higher birth weights. Although you can't market- a dead animal, the high birth weights usually wean the highest, but not always.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p> If you can you need to see the bulls progeny in the pasture shortly after birth and check the calf's body type for calving ease.</p><p></p><p><em>Try using EPDS and measuring the cow opening. They are supposed to be very accurate.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="HerefordSire, post: 398736, member: 4437"] am reposting this as I feel it is important for the beginner maybe this time we can have a cattle discussion. [i]If you are a newbie and you are playing with $1K in cash would be a big difference when investing in a cattle operations. Generally, if you are going little time, the following original opinion may have merit. If you are going big time, see who the leaders are and determine how they got there.[/i] I have said all this at one time or other but we seem to have an influx of newbies. So you want to raise cattle and be profitable. First learn to farm grass. [i]Before you go further, what was your profit last year? What kind of numbers are we talking about? $1K, $10K, $100K? The reason I ask, since I am a newbie, there is no need to heed advice from someone that doesn’t show a profit, especially, one that is trying to show how to profit from cattle. Your grass farm line was good as I see you post it numerous places and even saw photos of your grass pastures. Maybe you make your profit on selling grass to drought stricken areas for twice what the normal market is.[/i] Well lets start with the cow the best cow is a Hereford type(red cow) momma as your options are endless to follow the market. You want black calf's you have Angus, Brangus, Simm buckskin calves Char red Hereford etc change your color by changing the bull. You have more options with a red cow.. [i]This is absolutely not true. Also, I am trying to raise Polled Hereford seed stock. This is a biased statement. Any breed can be crossed with another breed. The options are identical. It is the perceived target markets which fluctuate and Hereford crosses are not as healthy as black markets.[/i] Now we need to find a reputable seed stock producer if they haven't been a producer at least 10 years drive on by as they are more than likely a flash in the pan breeder. [i]Baloney! They must be in East Texas, longer than ten years in business breeding seed stock, the breeder must be from European heritage, be between 5’6” and 6’0” tall, have a tattoo and earrings, etc. Some of the most talented breeders are the new breeders as they don’t have all the garbage in the brain. [/i] You want to search for cattle from a similar environment you don't want to shop for cows in Canada where they have strong grass and optimum growth temperatures and haul them to South Texas where there is weak grass and hot temps and expect them to perform. [i]Baloney! Genetically speaking, over a couple of 100 years, cattle didn’t have time to adapt. A cow will adapt fine from one area to the next, specifically from Canada to the southern US. The Hereford breed came from Europe and took over the entire US without being adapted in a short 400 years or so. It takes several million of years to make any difference and specific body parts begin to form to promote the evolution of the species.[/i] Now when you get out and start talking to this seed stock producer if he is yakkity yak epd's get in the truck and leave this is not a breed by the number business. [i]Make sure you are dealing with someone that knows what EPDs are, and then make sure they use them. If you do not own a truck, you may want to get into your car.[/i] The reputable produce will ask what are you looking for and if he can't fill that bill he will direct you to who can. [i]Baloney! There are all types of breeders, experienced and not experienced, that will not ask you what you are looking for.[/i] The best buy is a 3-an-1 now you want to see this girl in the pasture if she is a BCS of 4.5 to 5 this is ok she is converting grass to milk to cash while growing another one in the oven. [i]In my view, I generally like this opinion although the market changes all the time and this statement could be disadvantageous.[/i] You want to find out if these cows are on welfare and being fed if they are these are high maintenance cows. If they can't perform on grass drive on. [i]Baloney! It would be nice to know if the breeder has raised the cows on grass alone when inspecting the animal and EPDs. Cows which can produce according to your plan should be attractive for purchase not if all they have ever had is grass. Sometimes grass is higher in price than non-grass feed products. It depends on climate and market supply and demand.[/i] Second choice is Heavies you are looking for cows 5 to 7 years old as these cows know how to work. [i]Disregard this advice completely. The younger they are, generally they are higher priced, as they are more valuable and do not depreciate as fast but they depreciate more totally. While the 5-7 age cows are mature and know how to work and they may be priced attractively according to your goals, it depends on many other variables before anyone can safely openly recommend this.[/i] You are looking for a cow that will give you a 6 weight calf at 205 days. [i]600 pound weaning weight is low in Texas if you have a successful operation. If you supplement the herd with native Texas grown supplements, 7-800 is feasible with the right genetics. The trick may be avoiding the wrong genetics.[/i] This should be a moderate frame cow as she will require less feed maximizing profit. [i]Ask for the poster’s proof on this one as I have yet to see evidence. For example, what type of frame is more profitable, a 5 frame or a 5.5 frame? Sounds like he slinging a gun from the hip after drinking a slug of George Dickel.[/i] Buying 3n1's or Heavies gives you more time to search for the best bull for your operation. [i]Baloney! Time is constant. It may seem like you have more time. In reality, derivatives are all calculated on time and risk. As target time shortens, risk is variable.[/i] Now the bull you pull up to XYZ Angus ranch you you see a a 1400 pound bull a 2000 pounder both have a 205 6 weight growth average you want the 1400 pounder he is cheaper to maintain and actually has better growth rate than the 2000 behemoth. [i]Again, ask for proof from the poster. Although he may very well be accurate in the claim, there are just too many variables to measure. There are also exceptions to every rule.[/i] You will market the majority of you calf's through a sale barn so you look for the animal that achieves the weight with the least input on grass. [i]You cannot sell to friends outside of the sale barn. You cannot sell through the internet, etc. You cannot sell through the newspaper, thrifty nickel, it must be the sale barn, got it? Forget slling directy for a program or packer, of a feed company….because that way, I can’t capitalize of the total value of your animal(s).[/i] Now the bulls are going to be from anywhere on food stamps to full blown welfare. [i]Again, this is bulloney! The bulls are the same as cows in that they can be corn fed to grass fed. Each operation is different. What is important is…. match the plan to the genetics.[/i] If the breeder tells you the young man is on 5-7 pounds of ration a day he is going to slip some when you put him to work, if he is on 10 pounds or more he is going to fall, this is expounded by terrain and temperature that he has to work in. [i]See how this breeder works?[/i] You need to look for calving ease low birth weight bulls you can't sell dead calves. [i]Growth rates are generally higher for higher birth weights. Although you can’t market- a dead animal, the high birth weights usually wean the highest, but not always.[/i] If you can you need to see the bulls progeny in the pasture shortly after birth and check the calf's body type for calving ease. [i]Try using EPDS and measuring the cow opening. They are supposed to be very accurate.[/i] [/QUOTE]
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