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<blockquote data-quote="SPH" data-source="post: 1285706" data-attributes="member: 20580"><p>One thing to steer clear from I think is believing in unproven sire stud bulls just because they have some great EPDs and the sales guy is talking him up. We've bought semen on some of these bulls in the past and have moved to buying semen directly from proven reputable programs instead where those sires are working for them in their program and the EPD accuracies are much higher because of it. It's a lot easier sell IMO if a guy can show you just how well a bull is doing in his own program that backs the EPDs that go with it. I don't know how you can put much faith into some of these yearling and 2 year or even 3 year olds that the sire studs are hyping as the next big things when you have little to no progeny to look at or even daughters in production yet. Just this next spring we'll finally have a daughter calve out of a 2012 born bull we sold to another breeder but retained semen interest on so really with any bull it's not until his 3rd year of calves are hitting the ground that you really have any solid information on what kind his progeny are going to do until you see his first set of daughters calve and finally into production themselves. We like what we have seen of his calves so far in a small sample size but his true test comes next year when we have a daughter in production to see what kind of cow she will be.</p><p></p><p>I guess you can make the argument, well how can you trust a yearling bull you use naturally in your pasture and that's a valid point you do have some risk and blind faith going into those decisions as well. But, I think lost in some of that decision making for some is the ability to properly read and research a pedigree of a purebred animal. Does that animal come from a line of cattle that has solid and proven genetics or is it a one hit wonder out of a cow that typically is not a high performer? We dig through a pedigree to see what sires are on both sides of the pedigree to see if there are any that concern us and we look at several of the immediate dams in the pedigree to see what kind of ratios those dam's calves have as we like to see strong maternal traits and cows that are consistently producing calves in the top part of their contemporary groups.</p><p></p><p>Like I've said, EPDS can be a useful tool in selection and from a marking standpoint it's great when you can have good EPDs to go with a good looking animal, but those who disregard phenotype and structural concerns and use EPDs as their main source of criteria are really being narrow-sighted in their selection process. I could probably go through our cows and pull out some EPD examples where a cow with a better set of EPDs is being out-performed by one with lesser EPDs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SPH, post: 1285706, member: 20580"] One thing to steer clear from I think is believing in unproven sire stud bulls just because they have some great EPDs and the sales guy is talking him up. We've bought semen on some of these bulls in the past and have moved to buying semen directly from proven reputable programs instead where those sires are working for them in their program and the EPD accuracies are much higher because of it. It's a lot easier sell IMO if a guy can show you just how well a bull is doing in his own program that backs the EPDs that go with it. I don't know how you can put much faith into some of these yearling and 2 year or even 3 year olds that the sire studs are hyping as the next big things when you have little to no progeny to look at or even daughters in production yet. Just this next spring we'll finally have a daughter calve out of a 2012 born bull we sold to another breeder but retained semen interest on so really with any bull it's not until his 3rd year of calves are hitting the ground that you really have any solid information on what kind his progeny are going to do until you see his first set of daughters calve and finally into production themselves. We like what we have seen of his calves so far in a small sample size but his true test comes next year when we have a daughter in production to see what kind of cow she will be. I guess you can make the argument, well how can you trust a yearling bull you use naturally in your pasture and that's a valid point you do have some risk and blind faith going into those decisions as well. But, I think lost in some of that decision making for some is the ability to properly read and research a pedigree of a purebred animal. Does that animal come from a line of cattle that has solid and proven genetics or is it a one hit wonder out of a cow that typically is not a high performer? We dig through a pedigree to see what sires are on both sides of the pedigree to see if there are any that concern us and we look at several of the immediate dams in the pedigree to see what kind of ratios those dam's calves have as we like to see strong maternal traits and cows that are consistently producing calves in the top part of their contemporary groups. Like I've said, EPDS can be a useful tool in selection and from a marking standpoint it's great when you can have good EPDs to go with a good looking animal, but those who disregard phenotype and structural concerns and use EPDs as their main source of criteria are really being narrow-sighted in their selection process. I could probably go through our cows and pull out some EPD examples where a cow with a better set of EPDs is being out-performed by one with lesser EPDs. [/QUOTE]
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