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<blockquote data-quote="Ebenezer" data-source="post: 1803194" data-attributes="member: 24565"><p>There is some question for me that we should expect one type to do it all. Thus, WB pretty well nailed it. The carcass and growth quest has changed the breed. Then we see how few bulls get named over a period of a week as proven maternal types without some fault or concern. Oddly, average national weaning weights have not climbed and breed back on cows and % calf crops probably are not improved either. So has the push for what the push has been for been the best? </p><p></p><p>I agree that if we are raising seedstock or commercial replacements that a core herd is the way to go. There are good cows but they fall into two groups: able to replicate themselves or cannot replicate themselves. It is just the gene combination they got at conception and it depends on the stability of that combination. The longer we stay in the business, however, the larger % of the herd should be the core herd. If not, we are culling and keeping the wrong cattle. </p><p></p><p>I am not going to argue the buying sale barn cows for the value of money flow, depreciation, heifer costs... My real reason: I market and not outright pound out cows and heifers I consider to be culls. I hold them, breed them, carry them to 2nd or 3rd trimester and sell them in the barn as bred cows in the weekly sale. They are good looking cows and well fleshed when they sell. There are real reasons that I cull them. These same reasons are things that the buyers should also not want. But a lot of them are bought and taken to the farms by individuals. If individuals or the barn guys ask, I'll tell why I am selling them. That is why I cannot see barn cow as the way to go. </p><p></p><p>The two herds/one herd comment or the concern of a bull that is maternal more than paternal or visa versa is more of a discussion. I was raised like elkwc to expect do-all cattle. After some years of discussions with the late Larry Leonhardt, I have no problem identifying maternal type bulls and taking full advantage of them. He morphed to the opinion that there should be a two type beef breeding effort for maximum profits and efficient production for commercial cattle folks. Yet, his maternal type steers still graded well. I have a true maternal type bull on the farm now. His daughters are quite a prize. I held most of the steers from him over winter and they sold great in March. It can work and work well.</p><p></p><p>Just for discussion, and likely a repeat of past discussions: the dairy industry focuses on the cow and the bulls are mere byproducts. They have greatly improved cow production. And the laying hen business is the same. The pullets are the focus and I am pretty sure the male chicks are euthanized at the hatcheries. So these two models do not parallel the beef programs. But the broiler, turkey and hog industry are the main competitors. They use maternal/paternal breeding. They are quite efficient, can tweak the feed intake and the growth rates with their systems. Can we compare do-all beef programs to two line broilers and hogs? I honestly think that beef folks would make more if they thought in maternal crops of calves and terminal crops of calves. </p><p></p><p>Just my opinions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ebenezer, post: 1803194, member: 24565"] There is some question for me that we should expect one type to do it all. Thus, WB pretty well nailed it. The carcass and growth quest has changed the breed. Then we see how few bulls get named over a period of a week as proven maternal types without some fault or concern. Oddly, average national weaning weights have not climbed and breed back on cows and % calf crops probably are not improved either. So has the push for what the push has been for been the best? I agree that if we are raising seedstock or commercial replacements that a core herd is the way to go. There are good cows but they fall into two groups: able to replicate themselves or cannot replicate themselves. It is just the gene combination they got at conception and it depends on the stability of that combination. The longer we stay in the business, however, the larger % of the herd should be the core herd. If not, we are culling and keeping the wrong cattle. I am not going to argue the buying sale barn cows for the value of money flow, depreciation, heifer costs... My real reason: I market and not outright pound out cows and heifers I consider to be culls. I hold them, breed them, carry them to 2nd or 3rd trimester and sell them in the barn as bred cows in the weekly sale. They are good looking cows and well fleshed when they sell. There are real reasons that I cull them. These same reasons are things that the buyers should also not want. But a lot of them are bought and taken to the farms by individuals. If individuals or the barn guys ask, I'll tell why I am selling them. That is why I cannot see barn cow as the way to go. The two herds/one herd comment or the concern of a bull that is maternal more than paternal or visa versa is more of a discussion. I was raised like elkwc to expect do-all cattle. After some years of discussions with the late Larry Leonhardt, I have no problem identifying maternal type bulls and taking full advantage of them. He morphed to the opinion that there should be a two type beef breeding effort for maximum profits and efficient production for commercial cattle folks. Yet, his maternal type steers still graded well. I have a true maternal type bull on the farm now. His daughters are quite a prize. I held most of the steers from him over winter and they sold great in March. It can work and work well. Just for discussion, and likely a repeat of past discussions: the dairy industry focuses on the cow and the bulls are mere byproducts. They have greatly improved cow production. And the laying hen business is the same. The pullets are the focus and I am pretty sure the male chicks are euthanized at the hatcheries. So these two models do not parallel the beef programs. But the broiler, turkey and hog industry are the main competitors. They use maternal/paternal breeding. They are quite efficient, can tweak the feed intake and the growth rates with their systems. Can we compare do-all beef programs to two line broilers and hogs? I honestly think that beef folks would make more if they thought in maternal crops of calves and terminal crops of calves. Just my opinions. [/QUOTE]
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