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<blockquote data-quote="Katpau" data-source="post: 1762434" data-attributes="member: 9933"><p>I am surprised that the Charolais breed makes it that difficult to identify a carrier. It appears they care little for the commercial producer. I must give credit to American Angus when it comes to serious defects. AAA does not allow the registration of bulls that have a known carrier of a serious defect in their pedigree unless that bull has tested free of the defect. That is true, even if the known carrier is many generations removed. Cows can be registered, but there potential carrier status will be noted on their pedigree. Anyone can go to the AAA website and search under Management/Performance Measures/Animal Search and see any registered bulls pedigree, EPDs and status as a potential carrier of a known defect. It of course doesn't protect you from an incorrect pedigree, which is why I do a defect test on all outside bulls brought into my Angus herd. I also tested all potential carrier cows and I don't keep any carriers as replacements. With AAA, nothing is hidden away and there is no charge to see that information. I assumed most breeds were that way, and I am shocked to find that a well known breed with a serious defect, identified at least as long ago as the 70's, has done nothing to control it. </p><p></p><p>I had actually been thinking about using a Charolais on my some of my Angus cows to produce some terminal calves, but there is no way I will support a breed that cares so little for their customers, even though PA is of almost no risk for terminal calves.</p><p></p><p>I don't agree with TwoByrds statement about not line breeding because "Weird stuff like this pops up". It seems to me they are implying that inbreeding and line breeding can cause defects. That is untrue. Inbreeding is just a way of finding the problems caused by recessive genes that remain hidden until they finally are revealed when two carriers are mated. When two carriers are mated 25% of their calves will have the defect, half will be carriers and only 25% will be non carriers. Finding a defect carrier will happen much faster with inbreeding. You can find the good, the bad, and the inconsequential traits in a pedigree with some intensive inbreeding. It can give you a more uniform herd, which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your choices. I actually do some purposeful line breeding of my best cows and it has been a positive thing. I have been fortunate to not discover any hidden defects and have gotten some really good cows from it.</p><p></p><p>There really is no a faster way to find problems, then to inbreed. Tests only reveal the defects we already know about and have developed a test for. Those defects were usually revealed when a bull has been immensely popular and was heavily used. Eventually his name appears in many pedigrees and the chances of two carriers being mated increases. Calves with defects begin to appear, the search for the source starts, and usually a common ancestor is found. At the same time a genetic test is developed and now perhaps thousands of potential carriers are identified and will need testing. This could likely have been prevented had those popular bulls been bred back to a large group of daughters, and any problems identified sooner. This would require at least 4-5 years data reported honestly by the bulls owners. I admit I have little confidence that someone with that large of an investment would be willing to sacrifice his own finances for the sake of the breed. I think that would be a very difficult decision for anyone. Easier to avoid inbreeding and not take the chance of finding something. The problems in the Charolais breed might mean it is so prevalent in the breed that even if you avoid breeding up close, there are no guarantees you are not breeding Carrier to Carrier. If I were TwoByrds I would test all of my cows and insist that any bulls I use has tested free of PA. I would only retain daughters that also test free. It will take time, but you will eventually have a herd that is free of PA and I would then promote it as such.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Katpau, post: 1762434, member: 9933"] I am surprised that the Charolais breed makes it that difficult to identify a carrier. It appears they care little for the commercial producer. I must give credit to American Angus when it comes to serious defects. AAA does not allow the registration of bulls that have a known carrier of a serious defect in their pedigree unless that bull has tested free of the defect. That is true, even if the known carrier is many generations removed. Cows can be registered, but there potential carrier status will be noted on their pedigree. Anyone can go to the AAA website and search under Management/Performance Measures/Animal Search and see any registered bulls pedigree, EPDs and status as a potential carrier of a known defect. It of course doesn't protect you from an incorrect pedigree, which is why I do a defect test on all outside bulls brought into my Angus herd. I also tested all potential carrier cows and I don't keep any carriers as replacements. With AAA, nothing is hidden away and there is no charge to see that information. I assumed most breeds were that way, and I am shocked to find that a well known breed with a serious defect, identified at least as long ago as the 70's, has done nothing to control it. I had actually been thinking about using a Charolais on my some of my Angus cows to produce some terminal calves, but there is no way I will support a breed that cares so little for their customers, even though PA is of almost no risk for terminal calves. I don't agree with TwoByrds statement about not line breeding because "Weird stuff like this pops up". It seems to me they are implying that inbreeding and line breeding can cause defects. That is untrue. Inbreeding is just a way of finding the problems caused by recessive genes that remain hidden until they finally are revealed when two carriers are mated. When two carriers are mated 25% of their calves will have the defect, half will be carriers and only 25% will be non carriers. Finding a defect carrier will happen much faster with inbreeding. You can find the good, the bad, and the inconsequential traits in a pedigree with some intensive inbreeding. It can give you a more uniform herd, which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your choices. I actually do some purposeful line breeding of my best cows and it has been a positive thing. I have been fortunate to not discover any hidden defects and have gotten some really good cows from it. There really is no a faster way to find problems, then to inbreed. Tests only reveal the defects we already know about and have developed a test for. Those defects were usually revealed when a bull has been immensely popular and was heavily used. Eventually his name appears in many pedigrees and the chances of two carriers being mated increases. Calves with defects begin to appear, the search for the source starts, and usually a common ancestor is found. At the same time a genetic test is developed and now perhaps thousands of potential carriers are identified and will need testing. This could likely have been prevented had those popular bulls been bred back to a large group of daughters, and any problems identified sooner. This would require at least 4-5 years data reported honestly by the bulls owners. I admit I have little confidence that someone with that large of an investment would be willing to sacrifice his own finances for the sake of the breed. I think that would be a very difficult decision for anyone. Easier to avoid inbreeding and not take the chance of finding something. The problems in the Charolais breed might mean it is so prevalent in the breed that even if you avoid breeding up close, there are no guarantees you are not breeding Carrier to Carrier. If I were TwoByrds I would test all of my cows and insist that any bulls I use has tested free of PA. I would only retain daughters that also test free. It will take time, but you will eventually have a herd that is free of PA and I would then promote it as such. [/QUOTE]
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