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<blockquote data-quote="MikeJoel" data-source="post: 214777" data-attributes="member: 3783"><p>I am not very old (30) but have done a few things, and find it true so far with cows too, that research and learning is a major difference from the real thing.</p><p></p><p>I agree that the 8 hour calving is plain carelessness. There is no excuse (not even ignorance for waiting like that) but I wouldn't call it torture, their not actively doing anything against the animal (by the way what happened, got a link?).</p><p>Anyone who has their first calving cow and isn't caring anough to find out the process and what to expect shouldn't have the cow yet.</p><p></p><p>PETA and other groups claim cattle ranchers torture their animals. I was on some advocate site yesterday and they actually said that (chickens) "<strong>Slaughter is highly stressful and can cause much pain to the birds</strong>...". I took a while to stop laughing, yeah I bet slaughter is kind of stressful to them. They also say how awful it is when the birds aren't knocked out by shock but are awake when they get their throats cut, hey thats the only way we've ever butchered chickens. So am I torturing the birds, according to them yes.</p><p></p><p>I just dont like "torture" linked to animals that people are trying their best to raise. If their mistreating them on purpose then sure. I dont know where to draw the line but I wouldn't want someone looking at a mistake I make with an animal and start saying I torture them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe so (I not so sure though), besides who made Caustic and others acting like that the thresher?</p><p></p><p>And when you get attitude like that then people (like me who are getting their first animals) feel they better not ask because their questions are going to be put to the test first of "can I make it sound like a stupid question" instead of putting up a simple answer. After all if the question is so stupid then the answer should be pretty obvious.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Mike</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MikeJoel, post: 214777, member: 3783"] I am not very old (30) but have done a few things, and find it true so far with cows too, that research and learning is a major difference from the real thing. I agree that the 8 hour calving is plain carelessness. There is no excuse (not even ignorance for waiting like that) but I wouldn't call it torture, their not actively doing anything against the animal (by the way what happened, got a link?). Anyone who has their first calving cow and isn't caring anough to find out the process and what to expect shouldn't have the cow yet. PETA and other groups claim cattle ranchers torture their animals. I was on some advocate site yesterday and they actually said that (chickens) "[b]Slaughter is highly stressful and can cause much pain to the birds[/b]...". I took a while to stop laughing, yeah I bet slaughter is kind of stressful to them. They also say how awful it is when the birds aren't knocked out by shock but are awake when they get their throats cut, hey thats the only way we've ever butchered chickens. So am I torturing the birds, according to them yes. I just dont like "torture" linked to animals that people are trying their best to raise. If their mistreating them on purpose then sure. I dont know where to draw the line but I wouldn't want someone looking at a mistake I make with an animal and start saying I torture them. Maybe so (I not so sure though), besides who made Caustic and others acting like that the thresher? And when you get attitude like that then people (like me who are getting their first animals) feel they better not ask because their questions are going to be put to the test first of "can I make it sound like a stupid question" instead of putting up a simple answer. After all if the question is so stupid then the answer should be pretty obvious. Mike [/QUOTE]
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