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<blockquote data-quote="SRBeef" data-source="post: 641587" data-attributes="member: 7509"><p>This is an interesting discussion of genetics.</p><p></p><p>However I see two important points/positions:</p><p></p><p>1) Phenotype (= visual evalauation) has been the most important criteria for judging bulls</p><p></p><p>2) EPD's will hopefully help predict those criteria which can not be seen visually.</p><p></p><p>In my case, as a bull buying customer, and one who is not able to physically be around my cattle most of the time during calving season, calving ease is my number 1 criteria. </p><p></p><p>Looking at many bull sale catalogs and websites recently, it does not seem like there is an visual/phenotype way to be able to compare the calving ease and likely birthweight of a bulls offspring. In some ways it appears to actually work in reverse - many of the bigger more muscular bull tend to have higher birthweight calves.</p><p></p><p>It would be nice to know that a bull CAN sire lower birthweight calves but ones who "catch up" with good ww and yw. And one who's daughters tend to be good milk producers/calve easily.</p><p></p><p>Yes you can probably raise bulls and know these after they have a couple years of calves on the ground but that is a little late for most of us.</p><p></p><p>One thing that I have learned about cattle is that EVERYTHING takes a lot of time. Developing a herd and a beef business just takes time. EPD's seem to be a way we can speed things up by selecting a bull with a higher PROBABILITY of being strong in the areas we need in our operation.</p><p></p><p>The Sandhill catalog (sale coming up) makes a point of the importance of EPD's and how they have collected data for many years. Jerry Huth's website also stresses the importance of EPD's (and the difficulty of breeding for almost conflicting goals like low bw and high ww simultaneously). Some catalogs barely mention EPD's. Some catalogs promote great photos and seem to boast about EPD's that are at best mediocre. </p><p></p><p>It seems to me we need to have BOTH visual/phenotype AND predictive tools/EPDs when evaluating cattle. We also need to encourage the careful collection and honest reporting of more EPD data in the Hereford breed. It is hard to see how the breed can evolve and show genuine improvement without both. jmho.</p><p></p><p>Jim</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SRBeef, post: 641587, member: 7509"] This is an interesting discussion of genetics. However I see two important points/positions: 1) Phenotype (= visual evalauation) has been the most important criteria for judging bulls 2) EPD's will hopefully help predict those criteria which can not be seen visually. In my case, as a bull buying customer, and one who is not able to physically be around my cattle most of the time during calving season, calving ease is my number 1 criteria. Looking at many bull sale catalogs and websites recently, it does not seem like there is an visual/phenotype way to be able to compare the calving ease and likely birthweight of a bulls offspring. In some ways it appears to actually work in reverse - many of the bigger more muscular bull tend to have higher birthweight calves. It would be nice to know that a bull CAN sire lower birthweight calves but ones who "catch up" with good ww and yw. And one who's daughters tend to be good milk producers/calve easily. Yes you can probably raise bulls and know these after they have a couple years of calves on the ground but that is a little late for most of us. One thing that I have learned about cattle is that EVERYTHING takes a lot of time. Developing a herd and a beef business just takes time. EPD's seem to be a way we can speed things up by selecting a bull with a higher PROBABILITY of being strong in the areas we need in our operation. The Sandhill catalog (sale coming up) makes a point of the importance of EPD's and how they have collected data for many years. Jerry Huth's website also stresses the importance of EPD's (and the difficulty of breeding for almost conflicting goals like low bw and high ww simultaneously). Some catalogs barely mention EPD's. Some catalogs promote great photos and seem to boast about EPD's that are at best mediocre. It seems to me we need to have BOTH visual/phenotype AND predictive tools/EPDs when evaluating cattle. We also need to encourage the careful collection and honest reporting of more EPD data in the Hereford breed. It is hard to see how the breed can evolve and show genuine improvement without both. jmho. Jim [/QUOTE]
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