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<blockquote data-quote="rocket2222" data-source="post: 640864" data-attributes="member: 5362"><p>While on average 50% of calves born are bull calves and the bull is 50% of your herd come breeding time, he is not 50% of the database. Epd's are derived from breeding stock to form a database, the accuracy of that database determines the how accurate the epd's are. Taking in to account small herds of less than 20 head and also taking in to account AI use which actually lessen the number of bulls needed per head of cow, I'm going to guess and pick a number of roughly one bull for every twenty head of cows as the number of actual breeding stock that we can accumulate data from. This means [ roughly speaking ] that the bull accounts for about 5% of the actual breeding stock and only 5% of the database that epd's are based on. Of coarse this also means that the cow herd makes up the other 95% of animals in the database from which all epds are based upon. How you came to the conclusion that "<strong>really really accurate data on the dam herself isn't all that important</strong>" when she accounts for about 95% of the animals in the database has me stumped.</p><p>The AHA finally realized the importance of the cow herd a few years back, this led them to start a program called " whole herd total performance records" "WHTPR" The program is designed to force breeders to turn in data on all their animals within the herd instead of being able to pick and choose which animals they collected data on. I think that its a good program and I've been enrolled in it since it was first introduced. Although I do believe that there are and was some things that could have been done better, the main one was incorporating the old data into the program at the beginning. They knew that this data was terribly floored from years of breeders turning in partial data typically only on their higher performing stock, yet they chose to use it anyway. This means that all present day epd's are derived from a database that was know to be wrong from the get go. You may not have noticed this, <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> but, with the use of AI most all the top rated bulls are available to just about anyone, the main difference between the top breeders who use them and the average breeder who uses them is the cow herd.</p><p>Just as a side note, I use epd's as a tool in my selection process, although I don't breed using epds with mindset of simply making them appear better on paper. A good set of epd's doesn't mean it's a good breeding animal.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rocket2222, post: 640864, member: 5362"] While on average 50% of calves born are bull calves and the bull is 50% of your herd come breeding time, he is not 50% of the database. Epd's are derived from breeding stock to form a database, the accuracy of that database determines the how accurate the epd's are. Taking in to account small herds of less than 20 head and also taking in to account AI use which actually lessen the number of bulls needed per head of cow, I'm going to guess and pick a number of roughly one bull for every twenty head of cows as the number of actual breeding stock that we can accumulate data from. This means [ roughly speaking ] that the bull accounts for about 5% of the actual breeding stock and only 5% of the database that epd's are based on. Of coarse this also means that the cow herd makes up the other 95% of animals in the database from which all epds are based upon. How you came to the conclusion that "[b]really really accurate data on the dam herself isn't all that important[/b]" when she accounts for about 95% of the animals in the database has me stumped. The AHA finally realized the importance of the cow herd a few years back, this led them to start a program called " whole herd total performance records" "WHTPR" The program is designed to force breeders to turn in data on all their animals within the herd instead of being able to pick and choose which animals they collected data on. I think that its a good program and I've been enrolled in it since it was first introduced. Although I do believe that there are and was some things that could have been done better, the main one was incorporating the old data into the program at the beginning. They knew that this data was terribly floored from years of breeders turning in partial data typically only on their higher performing stock, yet they chose to use it anyway. This means that all present day epd's are derived from a database that was know to be wrong from the get go. You may not have noticed this, :) but, with the use of AI most all the top rated bulls are available to just about anyone, the main difference between the top breeders who use them and the average breeder who uses them is the cow herd. Just as a side note, I use epd's as a tool in my selection process, although I don't breed using epds with mindset of simply making them appear better on paper. A good set of epd's doesn't mean it's a good breeding animal. [/QUOTE]
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