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<blockquote data-quote="Herefords.US" data-source="post: 640787" data-attributes="member: 3972"><p>Brandon, logic would make me tend to agree with you, but apparently that logic is also flawed, as the case of these three full flush brothers indicate.</p><p></p><p>Look at the sires in their three generation pedigree and they are all highly proven sires with a lot of progeny. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find Hereford bulls with a larger quantity of data backing them - and their EPDs. Yet, look where their EPD "spread" went when the first crop of calves hit the ground.</p><p></p><p>Here is another post of yours that I generally agree with:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Adding to the inaccuracy of the initial EPDs of these bulls is the fact that they are a cross of a low BW EPD cow with a high BW EPD bull. </p><p></p><p>I saw these three bulls together at Fort Worth the year before Easy Deal won the championship the next year. And that year I saw Easy Deal and Top Hat again at Fort Worth. I suspect Banker was in W4's pasture breeding cows. I've actually seen their dam, their sire(multiple times), and both of their grandsires (Pure Gold multiple times) in person as well. I've also followed the EPDs of many of the individuals in the pedigree of these bulls, noticing the fluctuations in them as a new set of EPDs is published. I'm hardly "uninformed" regarding EPDs. And I know these cattle pretty well. I had gleaned and studied the data that OLF and HS has posted here long before I started this thread, looking for answers. to the questions I have regarding EPDs. My journey to the conclusions I have regarding EPDs hasn't been an overnighter - it's been 7 years in the making - and much more time involved than I'd like to admit.</p><p></p><p>In Fort Worth, as yearlings, these three bulls were almost like "peas in a pod". Visually, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between them - certainly nothing that would indicate there might be a difference in their BW or Growth EPDs. Combined with their flush sisters, this has to be one of the most successful flushes ever done - in terms of getting the desired phenotypic result.</p><p></p><p>My personal preference of the three was the Top Hat bull. He had a little more thickness. But the one I wanted to eventually use was Easy Deal, because he's the only one of the three that's polled. I believe that Easy Deal's BW EPD will not stay where it currently is. If his EPDs don't move much from this point, I won't use him - because that likely also means that the 93.9% WWI on his calves is accurate and I'm not going to knowingly give up 6% WW on my calves to use any bull. But I got that information from looking at Easy Deal's performance pedigree, not his EPDs. Not suprisingly, that fact wasn't mentioned in the ad promoting him either.</p><p></p><p>George</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herefords.US, post: 640787, member: 3972"] Brandon, logic would make me tend to agree with you, but apparently that logic is also flawed, as the case of these three full flush brothers indicate. Look at the sires in their three generation pedigree and they are all highly proven sires with a lot of progeny. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find Hereford bulls with a larger quantity of data backing them - and their EPDs. Yet, look where their EPD "spread" went when the first crop of calves hit the ground. Here is another post of yours that I generally agree with: Adding to the inaccuracy of the initial EPDs of these bulls is the fact that they are a cross of a low BW EPD cow with a high BW EPD bull. I saw these three bulls together at Fort Worth the year before Easy Deal won the championship the next year. And that year I saw Easy Deal and Top Hat again at Fort Worth. I suspect Banker was in W4's pasture breeding cows. I've actually seen their dam, their sire(multiple times), and both of their grandsires (Pure Gold multiple times) in person as well. I've also followed the EPDs of many of the individuals in the pedigree of these bulls, noticing the fluctuations in them as a new set of EPDs is published. I'm hardly "uninformed" regarding EPDs. And I know these cattle pretty well. I had gleaned and studied the data that OLF and HS has posted here long before I started this thread, looking for answers. to the questions I have regarding EPDs. My journey to the conclusions I have regarding EPDs hasn't been an overnighter - it's been 7 years in the making - and much more time involved than I'd like to admit. In Fort Worth, as yearlings, these three bulls were almost like "peas in a pod". Visually, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between them - certainly nothing that would indicate there might be a difference in their BW or Growth EPDs. Combined with their flush sisters, this has to be one of the most successful flushes ever done - in terms of getting the desired phenotypic result. My personal preference of the three was the Top Hat bull. He had a little more thickness. But the one I wanted to eventually use was Easy Deal, because he's the only one of the three that's polled. I believe that Easy Deal's BW EPD will not stay where it currently is. If his EPDs don't move much from this point, I won't use him - because that likely also means that the 93.9% WWI on his calves is accurate and I'm not going to knowingly give up 6% WW on my calves to use any bull. But I got that information from looking at Easy Deal's performance pedigree, not his EPDs. Not suprisingly, that fact wasn't mentioned in the ad promoting him either. George [/QUOTE]
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